Australia

[Akhenaten]

Nice Place.

Spent a month there in 2000. (2 in Gippsland, Corinella the town, and 2 weeks in Bendigo, where the gal I went to visit was going to uni/college)

I know Corinella. Lovely! Bendigo is 120 km (75 mi) west of Pi-Broadford, and I know it quite well. I recommend the Rifle Brigade Hotel for a ploughman's lunch and a pint of the in-house brew.

From my brief experience people in Bendigo think you fit in until you open your Yank (Massachusetts/Vermont) mouth. I suspect it's because those in Melbourne and Gippsland are more used to Yanks.

Absotively kerrect.

Aussies live a more American western lifestyle as far as I saw than any of the European countries I've visited. But my data is very narrow I'll admit; one girl, her family and friends...That said they all thought our Yank cars were bigger lol(in 2000; they're driving Explorers and Navigators over there even then lol).

Sportsworld Pacific

They'll like their new Super Hornets anyway (some bitch about picking Abrams tanks though...Leopard 2 might be slightly better... but you know how expensive it is just to fix a Volkswagen? )

World Wide War Pigs


Welcome Cobber!

Dave

 

[Hallo Alfie]

The following stuff has come from a ‘drinking forum’ that started with the alcohol limits allowed at Bathurst this year.
We thought it might be worthwhile to include in this thread (thanks Dave).
Sorry it’s so long and if it’s a bit disjointed.
Apologies for any omissions

Arcade 22
I have heard that the abo's cant buy beer and pornography, is this true?

Wildly
I wouldn't say "abo" when referring to the Aborigines. It's considered racist.

You are sort of right. They can't buy beer and porn in certain places in the Northern Territory after the Northern Territory National Emergency Response was implemented. I don't really understand the porn ban, I think that they've decided that the easiest way to stop child abuse was to just block all porn altogether.

Other then that they can buy beer and porn pretty much everywhere else in Australia.

Damien Evans
First, if you ever do see an aboriginal, don't call him that if you like your face the way it is.

Depends where you are, but in the areas you can't buy alcohol, no-one can, no matter what race they are.

Akhenaten
There are prescribed areas, in various parts of the country where alcohol is strictly prohibited.

Anecdotally:

I've seen what I think are two main reasons that alcohol problems occur.

One is extreme boredom on the part of the Aboriginal drinkers.

The other is greed on the part of the white purveyors.

I am not trying to apportion blame here. The Government has mismanaged some things, the Native Land Councils have done the same. Some people have done the wrong thing and spoiled it for the rest.

This is not the venue, and I'm not the person to apportion blame or even suggest a solution. It's being worked on by people who are doing their best. Apart from all that, I think that the situation would be similar in many places.


Pornography? I've not noted that to be an issue at all, let alone subject to regulation. I can't even see how pornography could cause anywhere near the damage that alcohol and petrol sniffing cause. They are tragedies, porn is just good for ighting the fire with, after you've read the articles.

Petrol is also restricted in some areas, because of the abovementioned sniffing. The younger fellers are mostly into that, and it's very damaging. Worse than the grog.

The abbreviation of Aboriginal to Abo (capitalised at least, please, these are my countrymen, not some sheep.) is fraught. I find it tolerable, and so do many Aboriginals, but many don't. I think it safer to go with Aboriginal.

We don't discuss eskos in Alaska or afros in Africa so I think it's fair not to discuss "abos"

I'll stop here, just outside Derail City and have a smoko now.

MG 1962
A study I recall in the 1980's indicated that Aboriginals have a strong bias towards alcoholism due to a genetic issue rather than social. However I do agree the extreme social and economic dislocation they have suffered has not helped their cause
Definately, and the important thing is we have to focus on the future, not dwell on these errors. A very important step was taken in Feb 2008 when Prime Minister Rudd apologised on behalf of the Australian Parliament and people to all those who had been affected by some of our misguided efforts
On the East coast at least Aboriginals prefer the word Koori...It means people in their language. One small tip, never ever ever, refer to any of them as half caste. That is about the biggest insult you can make....and I discovered that the hard way

Puppycow
I believe that banning porn as a policy to reduce sex crimes is counterproductive. For example, is America at least, sex crimes have been on the decline as internet access (ie porn access) has increased. Correlation is not necessarily indicative of causality, but it is consistent with my view.

Akhenaten
Seconded.

I would have thought this to be fairly well understood in Australia and I hope it is, at least by the policy makers, if not the vox pop. As I've mentioned earlier, until this thread I'd never heard of any restricted areas for pornography.

Something else I'd like to reiterate, because I feel it's important.

The grog restrictions apply to areas of land, not to any particular or general group of people. Black, white, brindle or green, if you get busted in a dry zone with grog you'll go a row.

This applies to Army, Police, Priests (communion wine) and everyone. I believe a Government Minister copped some flak a while ago because his government jet landed in a dry zone and there was alcohol in the mini-bar. None was ever removed from the fridge, let alone drunk, but he was still in deep doo-doo. They take it THAT seriously.

MG 1962
A couple of years ago a team of engineers from the company I worked for went to Bathurst Island to do perliminary work for a major housing developement for the Aboriginal Housing Commission

The stories and conditions they encountered on the island were nothing short of horrendous. The level of under age rape, and teen pregancy dwarfed any other figures I have ever heard from anywhere. Especially regarding incest

These guys were neither racist nor taken to flights of fancy, but I have wondered over the years what the root cause of this societal dislocation has been. The easy answer would be porn and booze, but I wonder why such experiences are not being seen in other Aboriginal communities

Akhenaten
Anecdote and personal opinion follows:

I've never seen a porn/nastythingshappening connection myself, and I've been to some bad places in Australia. I also recall very serious problems on, I think, Pitcairn Island, and it's extremely unlikely that pornography was a factor in those unfortunate events.

Wildly
Eh, what are you going to do (apart from smuggling in porn and making plenty of money )?

The intervention was started by the Liberal party, who are the more conservative major party in Australia.

A.A.Alfie
I must say that this one is a terrible dilemma and our elected representatives and those working hard for our indigenous would love an answer.

From my understanding on this, the underlying concern about protecting the children in these communities.
These remote outposts were created (from good intentions) to allow those of the indigenous to live a traditional way of life, with their own laws (to a point) and in their own way. There is no internet, pornography is brought in in 'hard copy' form generally - portable electronics are virtually unheard of.
Alcohol and pornography are in no way traditional, nor is "sit down money" (the dole and/or other benefits) which allows individuals not to work (hunt and gather) and 'import' their needs from outside sources. Idle hands make for the devils work.

The last thing any government in this country needs is more fuel for, or a modern day 'stolen children' controversy. There are horrendous stories of rampant paedophilia, beatings and rape. So, if the women and children (the young being the most vulnerable) are endangered because the male population is running amok, something had to be done.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

On another subject, Can I please throw up a few songs for consideration?


The Radiators - Gimme H...
Here's the second verse for the uninitiated

"You Give Me Scratch Marks Down The Length Of My Back
you Give Me Teeth Marks In The Side Of My Neck
you Whisper Sweet Things
you Give Me Beatings
you Wreck My Bed, You Wreck My Bed

But best of all, Oh yeah! you gimme ...."

I'm bopping along as I write

ACDC - Dirty Deeds

For truly Australian flavour (especially our Qld cousins)
GANGgajang - Sounds Of Then

Paul Kelly ought to get a nod somewhere too -perhaps our most celebrated poet since AB Banjo Patterson (no, not Sir Les' son) and

just about anything by Patsie Biscoe or the Wiggles.

 

[Akhenaten]

On another subject, Can I please throw up a few songs for consideration?


The Radiators - Gimme H...
Here's the second verse for the uninitiated

"You Give Me Scratch Marks Down The Length Of My Back
you Give Me Teeth Marks In The Side Of My Neck
you Whisper Sweet Things
you Give Me Beatings
you Wreck My Bed, You Wreck My Bed

But best of all, Oh yeah! you gimme ...."

I'm bopping along as I write

ACDC - Dirty Deeds

For truly Australian flavour (especially our Qld cousins)
GANGgajang - Sounds Of Then

Paul Kelly ought to get a nod somewhere too -perhaps our most celebrated poet since AB Banjo Patterson (no, not Sir Les' son) and

just about anything by Patsie Biscoe or the Wiggles.

Excellent picks all. We're getting close to a top one hundred list. I will post.

Patsie Biscoe rocks. I went to live performance in Toowoomba many years ago with my great mate D'arcy Wilson - Peta's dad.


It will take me a while to respond to your other post. Have some popcorn.



Cheers Mate.

 

[arthwollipot]

The abbreviation of Aboriginal to Abo (capitalised at least, please, these are my countrymen, not some sheep.) is fraught. I find it tolerable, and so do many Aboriginals, but many don't. I think it safer to go with Aboriginal.

We've been through this before, with Old Bob, a now-banned idiot who insisted that the term was not derogatory. It is, and I don't give a koala's appendix whether some indigenous Australians accept it - I don't.

The preferred term is "indigenous Australians", since the word "aboriginal" can refer to the native population of any area.

 

[Akhenaten]

We've been through this before, with Old Bob, a now-banned idiot who insisted that the term was not derogatory. It is, and I don't give a koala's appendix whether some indigenous Australians accept it - I don't.

The preferred term is "indigenous Australians", since the word "aboriginal" can refer to the native population of any area.

A A Alfie was quoting me Artie, and I was telling someone off for doing it as gently as I could.


AAA is one of the good guys!


Cheers,

Dave

 

[MG1962]

We've been through this before, with Old Bob, a now-banned idiot who insisted that the term was not derogatory. It is, and I don't give a koala's appendix whether some indigenous Australians accept it - I don't.

The preferred term is "indigenous Australians", since the word "aboriginal" can refer to the native population of any area.

As I mentioned elsewhere. Koorie is a very acceptable form of address on the East Coast.

 

[HawaiiBigSis]

Alcohol consumption is/was an issue with American aboriginals as well... the "firewater" of Westerns.

Is there really any genetic pre-disposition to succumbing to alcohol in these population groups, or is it just the white man's cure for any problem to make a blanket ban of perceived problem substances?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Alcohol consumption is/was an issue with American aboriginals as well... the "firewater" of Westerns.

Is there really any genetic pre-disposition to succumbing to alcohol in these population groups, or is it just the white man's cure for any problem to make a blanket ban of perceived problem substances?

I work indirectly the field and have heard studies on both sides of the fence. In my personal meanderings I have seen communities absolutely ravaged by alcohol (and other substances), - such as some in and around Alice Springs, but by the same token there are many indigenous groups who have relatively few - some areas in and around Kakadu. Oh.., that is not to minimise any issues in Kakadu either.

Are those with a predisposition accumulating in one place and those without another? Perhaps to a point however I think there is a genetic factor the same way there is in other ethnic groups. It is perhaps in the above examples we might see some of the genetics on display rather than in the suburbs of the major towns and cities where the people have a more melded blend of culture.

I have heard it said that 10% of any population will be directly affected (broad brush, please dont challenge me with specifics) and it appears - at least to me - that this sort of number is consistent with our indigenous.

 

[HawaiiBigSis]

I have heard it said that 10% of any population will be directly affected (broad brush, please dont challenge me with specifics) and it appears - at least to me - that this sort of number is consistent with our indigenous.

Exactly my point.

10% of ANY population is going to react badly to alcohol, or whatever the substance is, whether it's drugs, pornography, gambling, whatever.

So if you have a population of 50% European-ancestry and 50% indigenous, 5% of the problem people are going to be white guys, and 5% are going to be Koori (or whatever the term of choice this month is).

Why do white folk conclude that it's the Koori that can't drink? And why do they conclude that the only workable solution is to prohibit alcohol?

 

[Akhenaten]

Exactly my point.

10% of ANY population is going to react badly to alcohol, or whatever the substance is, whether it's drugs, pornography, gambling, whatever.

So if you have a population of 50% European-ancestry and 50% indigenous, 5% of the problem people are going to be white guys, and 5% are going to be Koori (or whatever the term of choice this month is).

Yep. Sorta. However:

Indigenous Australians are the original inhabitants of the Australian continent and nearby islands, and these peoples' descendants. Indigenous Australians are distinguished as either Aboriginal people or Torres Strait Islanders, who currently together make up about 2.6% of Australia's population.

Wikipedia


That's a lot less than a 50/50 split mate, and it creates both issues and statistical anomolies. I and others will try to explain more fully as the discussion progresses.

Why do white folk conclude that it's the Koori that can't drink? And why do they conclude that the only workable solution is to prohibit alcohol?

Some of it's bigotry, some of it is innocent ignorance, some of it is a lack of resources.

All of it is just the same as anywhere else in the world.

We certainly haven't concluded that the only workable solution is to prohibit alcohol. It's a stop-gap while people earnestly try to find better solutions.


I'm having trouble with finding the current politcally correct word for Indiginenous Australians myself. How about we go with something completely neutral like "&&" I might try a short test quote.

Traditionally && people consumed weak alcohol made from various plants.

Their problems with alcohol began with the white invasion.

Contrary to public perception, surveys have in fact found that proportionally fewer && people drink alcohol than whites do.

Media tend to get the facts wrong, ignoring efforts by communities to get dry and reinforcing stereotyping.

That quote is from a site that will answer many questions for you, HBS. I recommend it to you and any others interested in this problem.

Creative Spirits


As always, thank you for your contributions HBS.


Cheers,

Dave



ETA: Here's another good link for the latest on issues relating particularly to the && people.

The Koori Mail

 

[Akhenaten]

Aboriginal Flag​

The Aboriginal Flag was designed by Harold Thomas, an artist and an Aboriginal, in 1971. The flag was designed to be an eye-catching rallying symbol for the Aboriginal people and a symbol of their race and identity. The black represents the Aboriginal people, the red the earth and their spiritual relationship to the land, and the yellow the sun, the giver of life.


Please note the words Dave has bolded.

Akhenaten was the one who did the coloured text part, so I'm not sure about that.

Torres Strait Islander Flag​

The Torres Strait Islander flag is attributed to the late Bernard Namok of Thursday Island. The flag is emblazoned with a white Dari (headdress) which is a symbol of Torres Strait Islanders. The white five pointed star beneath it symbolises the five major island groups and the navigational importance of stars to these seafaring people. The green stripes represent the land, the black stripes represent the people, and the blue the sea. The flag as a whole symbolises the unity of all Torres Strait Islanders.


The Aboriginal flag was recognised under Federal legislation, as was the Torres Strait Islanders' flag, in July 1995. The Aboriginal flag was first displayed on 12th July 1971, National Aborigines' Day, at Victoria Square in Adelaide. It was also used at the 'Tent Embassy' in Canberra in 1972.

The flag is flown or displayed permanently at Aboriginal centres throughout Australia. It is popularly recognised as the flag of the aboriginal peoples of Australia and should only be flown by other Australians when permission has been granted.


Cheers,

Dave

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Aboriginal Flag​

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/FlagAboriginal.jpg[/qimg]​

The Aboriginal Flag was designed by Harold Thomas, an artist and an Aboriginal, in 1971. The flag was designed to be an eye-catching rallying symbol for the Aboriginal people and a symbol of their race and identity. The black represents the Aboriginal people, the red the earth and their spiritual relationship to the land, and the yellow the sun, the giver of life.


Please note the words Dave has bolded.

Akhenaten was the one who did the coloured text part, so I'm not sure about that.

Torres Strait Islander Flag​

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/FlagTSI.jpg[/qimg]​

The Torres Strait Islander flag is attributed to the late Bernard Namok of Thursday Island. The flag is emblazoned with a white Dari (headdress) which is a symbol of Torres Strait Islanders. The white five pointed star beneath it symbolises the five major island groups and the navigational importance of stars to these seafaring people. The green stripes represent the land, the black stripes represent the people, and the blue the sea. The flag as a whole symbolises the unity of all Torres Strait Islanders.


The Aboriginal flag was recognised under Federal legislation, as was the Torres Strait Islanders' flag, in July 1995. The Aboriginal flag was first displayed on 12th July 1971, National Aborigines' Day, at Victoria Square in Adelaide. It was also used at the 'Tent Embassy' in Canberra in 1972.

The flag is flown or displayed permanently at Aboriginal centres throughout Australia. It is popularly recognised as the flag of the aboriginal peoples of Australia and should only be flown by other Australians when permission has been granted.


Cheers,

Dave

I honestly, honestly, honestly mean no offence to anyone; I have many '&&' friends and acquaintances but...

Um, .... er ..... I, um don't quite know how to say this, but the Flag of the Torres Strait Islands (which I have never seen before this moment)... um.. reminds me of, well... How can I say this?....

Is the moon particularly big up there?

Are they sending us a message?

 

[Akhenaten]

I honestly, honestly, honestly mean no offence to anyone; I have many '&&' friends and acquaintances but...

Um, .... er ..... I, um don't quite know how to say this, but the Flag of the Torres Strait Islands (which I have never seen before this moment)... um.. reminds me of, well... How can I say this?....

Is the moon particularly big up there?

Are they sending us a message?

You aren't the first, trust me.

One of my best mates in Toowoomba, the Captain/Coach of the footy team (= God) is an Islander, and he was the one who first pointed out the "joke" to me.


Cheers


ETA: I'm assuming that you caught that it's just a funny lookin' hat from my description.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

You aren't the first, trust me.

One of my best mates in Toowoomba, the Captain/Coach of the footy team(= God) is an Islander, and he was the one who first pointed out the "joke" to me.


Cheers

PHEW!

Does anyone remember the band Chocolate Starfish?
See what I did?

 

[Akhenaten]

PHEW!

Does anyone remember the band Chocolate Starfish?
See what I did?

Smooth as a rat with a gold tooth.

My wife Vonnie and I used to enjoy a few sherbets while we watched Chocolate Starfish play on a Saturday arvo at the Espy.

 

[arthwollipot]

As I mentioned elsewhere. Koorie is a very acceptable form of address on the East Coast.

...unless you're talking to a Ngunawal or a Gandangara...

Apropos of nothing, but I'm repeating what I have been advised from a staff member of the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies (AIATSIS) - someone who works very closely with tribal elders, was heavily involved in the Apology, and who really ought to know.

Not "aboriginal", not "koori" - "indigenous".

Anyway...

 

[Akhenaten]

Arthwollipot,

I know you don't like my over-the-top occerism at times, and neither do many. I'll try to curb it a bit, but I'll fail.

I'd hope though, that for my own part at least, any references I have made to Indigenous Australians both in this thread and elsewhere, have appeared as nothing but respectful, regardless of my choice of a group name for these fine people.


Sincerely,

Dave

 

[arthwollipot]

I know you don't like my over-the-top occerism at times, and neither do many. I'll try to curb it a bit, but I'll fail.

Yeah, you would. I'll let you know if I think you go over the top. So far, you're good.

I'd hope though, that for my own part at least, any references I have made to Indigenous Australians both in this thread and elsewhere, have appeared as nothing but respectful, regardless of my choice of a group name for these fine people.

I have had no reason to presume otherwise. Unlike Old Bob, who reeked of old-school ocker racism.

To repeat - I was just relating what I was told. My source is something of an authority on the subject.

 

[Akhenaten]

He is, and I must acknowledge his postion. I'll use Indigenous Australians from now on, so that's at least two of us on the same track.

We're good then.

Cheers Mate