Astrological fun and games

Marrena said:
Eleatic Stranger, I need an accurate time for yours. 2:00 am is probably approximate. You've got very pronounced singleton and I need to know better where it falls. Where it's falling now indicates serious illness involving the reproductive organs or being a sexual healer of some sort, highly unlikely considering the nature of this board, although you do have moon in Pisces.
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Hm, does not getting laid often enough count as a serious illness involving the reproductive organs?
:)
If so, um, I certainly don't have that problem. Ahem. Nope.


Also, further checking of records reveals I had the time confused with my younger brother. It was actually more like a quarter past one in the afternoon.
 
Operaider, going to try to do these in summary since there are four. The 1929 chart is very straightforward, very balanced, should follow the typical rules for natal chart readings. Only problem, rising sign is on a cusp so I'm not touching that one. However, also has Jupiter rising--that's got to give a person a weight problem, maybe not a problem, maybe a pleasing plumpness. But that's not a skinny person. Cheerful and expansive with people too.

I'm hoping that person had a career, probably in something conservative. Excellent chart for career in almost anything, but especially something traditional like banking or management. Sensitive soul, easily moved by art and music, quiet, liking to be alone, possible drinking problem. Also maybe mental illness and hospitalization.

I'm going to skip the second because nobody is born at exactly noon. That's a bogus birthtime.

1955 chart--very interesting. No earth signs and a pronounced Moon singleton by location. People with no earth don't exactly lack common sense and practicality, but their solutions for taking care of earthy things are often unusual. I've found many of them are cooks, but their cooking is unique (which can be good or bad). They lack "common sense" and make up for it by using intellect, not very connected to their bodies and have a strange way of dealing with the senses. Often overweight from overeating, since lacking in earth--eating helps give them ballast.

Moon singleton in career house. Fluctuating career. Here's where I make a fool of myself. What career involves emotional dominance? I don't know, but career was important. Whatever it was, he or she was the boss.

1934 chart--Uranus 12th house Aries singleton. Weird. Explosive eccentric personality. Good angles, so this probably didn't cause the person too many problems, and he or she might have been able to keep it hidden, but that's a person marching to a different drummer. Good, passionate and interesting marriage. I'm not saying this person's a bad person, but someone who when severely challenged would be apt to do very surprising and perhaps somewhat violent things.
 
Jambo, is that am or pm and what country is Bellshill in? I'm guessing Ireland?

Will do Eleatic Stranger's now that I have the correct time
 
I'm going to skip the second because nobody is born at exactly noon. That's a bogus birthtime.
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What? How exactly do you come to that conclusion? I was actually born at exactly noon. It is a running joke in our family - I was extremely convenient being born at exactly noon on a Saturday.
Babies are born at all times of all days.

That's a quite bizarre claim.
 
The change in time made a big difference, caused the Moon to become a singleton. My jaw is dropping in astonishment. Tell me you're a skeptic and it will make me one too. You've got a Pisces Moon singleton in your first house--that should make you a crystal carrying, incense waving, card-carrying member of your New Age group of choice. Or maybe not, but certainly not a hardboiled skeptic. And you've got Aquarius rising, making you open to the weird. And on top of that Uranus is conjuncting your sun! The only way I can see this being the chart of a skeptic is if you were brought up in a very religious household, so for you being a skeptic is revolutionary and eccentric. No Virgo, no Capricorn, and to top it all off you're a Scorpio.

Very interesting 8th house, but I've gone on enough about that here.
 
Oh all right, but these are work he asked for four and I'm getting tired. Of course babies are born exactly at noon, but most times when people ask me that it's because they don't actually know. And the chart is almost meaningless. If he says he's seen a birth certificate with exactly noon on it I'll do it.

Now, as for all the posts about how astrology works, hell if I know. Certainly not by gravity. The asteroid Chiron can have a huge influence depending on placement, not to mention the very faraway and tiny Pluto, which is heavy hitter astrologically speaking, ruling sex birth and death.

As for how newly discovered planets are assigned rulership, that's actually through, well if I called it scientific I would get laughed at, but through careful observation. Back when there were five known planets, they had to rule all 12 signs of the zodiac. As new planets get discovered, they get assigned to the appropriate sign. People's charts with the new planet heavily aspected are examined, and world events involved both at the time of discovery and transits with other planets are looked at to get the flavor. As of now, there are two zodiac signs still unassigned--Mercury rules both Gemini and Virgo, and Venus rules both Taurus and Libra. Most astrologers agree that Virgo and Libra are the signs up for grabs for any new planets. Chiron is hotly debated as ruling Virgo, but most serious astrologers say no. It does have a very heavy influence for an asteroid, however.
 
Hm, I'm an atheist graduate student in the analytic tradition of philosophy, which while a little out there at times nevertheless (in my opinion at any rate) manages to stick to some pretty firm critical standards. And while certain members of my more extended family are pretty religious, my family in general is just your average mennonite roots and my parents in particular are fairly academic about their faith. At any rate, my atheism isn't precisely an issue or anything in my family. I won't deny that I can be eccentric at, um, times, but any skepticism on my part is fairly devoid of that.
 
Well once again Marrena thanks for all the time you've put in here tonight.

I have to go eat my spaghetti carbonara and go to bed now.:)

Take care, speak to you soon.

Night.

Ash.
 
Bon appetit Ashles

Eleatic Stranger, well I can see how that fits. You're here more from your own worldview than from a commonsense reaction to psychic ridiculousness. Another puzzle is how come no sex? Not the best chart for relationships, but that's a great chart for sex, with either gender. None of my business, never mind.

As for tests involving people's subjective rating of their own personalities, if people were that great at it cold readings wouldn't work. That's part of the reason I'm here, hoping skeptics would be less apt to agree with everything I say. Also why I've been trying to concentrate on the concrete rather than fuzzy psychological traits.

Now I'm wondering about statistical analysis of T-squares? Would showing that people with tight T-squares in their charts tend to die earlier and more violently be proof?
 
Just for the record officialy, it was 6:16am. I remember joking about it with my mom who has always says it was closer to 6:30 but then again she admits not really looking at a clock. She was a little busy. My doctor joked with me all the time about the time and date when I was little. He's the kinda guy that would have tinkered with minutes to make it look cool. He's long dead. I would hardly call myself an athlete. I was always good in sports but that is not were my ambitions were. I was just a fast arrogant kid that refused to lose in anything. I never had a desire to do any sport on the pro or even amature level, never really liked hanging out with guys on teams. But for what it's worth, I would say you reading was half right half wrong. The communications part is how I make my living. My even disposition is perhaps the best way to describe me. Now do I think your charts predicted anything about me based on the info I gave you? No. 50%. Flip a coin. Right on ability to understand and communicate with people, predictable,stable mood is good for employee relations, no suprises with me. And totally wrong on the physical side. Most could look at any of the readings on here that you gave and say the same thing, even those not about them. But thats what it's all about isn't it?

edited to add... thank you for your time and effort. This was a lot of fun and hope you stick around.
JPK
 
Marrena thank you for doing up these charts. I found the birth dates/times/places on a site listing celebrity horoscopes. While I can't verify for sure that they got everything correct (the second time for example), I did think it would be interesting to try it on people we all might know. So here goes, I'll give the name of the person who matches the date and a quick evaluation of the horoscope. I'm not trying to be too critical so please don't take anything I say as mean spirited. Keep in mind allot of this is a judgment call, and I am a skeptic. Plus it's all in good fun :D

Atlanta, Georgia
January 15 1929
11:21 am standard
Dr. Martin Luther King

Marrena said:
Operaider, going to try to do these in summary since there are four. The 1929 chart is very straightforward, very balanced, should follow the typical rules for natal chart readings. Only problem, rising sign is on a cusp so I'm not touching that one. However, also has Jupiter rising--that's got to give a person a weight problem, maybe not a problem, maybe a pleasing plumpness. But that's not a skinny person. Cheerful and expansive with people too.
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I wouldn't consider him to have a weight problem. I guess that's more of a judgement call. I'd like to think he was "cheerful and expansive with people". But, that would be more of an assumption. In all honesty I've never seen a picture of him smiling.
I'm hoping that person had a career, probably in something conservative. Excellent chart for career in almost anything, but especially something traditional like banking or management.
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I wouldn't consider what he did as conservative. Especially not by the standards of that day
Sensitive soul, easily moved by art and music, quiet, liking to be alone, possible drinking problem. Also maybe mental illness and hospitalization.
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I'd probably consider him a sensitive soul. Not sure one way or the other about the art or music or liking to be alone. He did always surround himself with people, but you could make a case that he preferred to be along. I'm pretty sure we'd all consider the mental illness part to be incorrect. Not enough information to make a call on the hospitalization or drinking problem. I've never heard of any drinking problem. Plus I'm pretty sure he was killed immediately after being shot and never made it to the hospital. Though I guess it could always be referring to a different visit.
I'm going to skip the second because nobody is born at exactly noon. That's a bogus birthtime.
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Staten Island, New York
December 18, 1980
12:00 pm standard
Christina Aguliera

The next one is:
Seattle, Washington
Oct 28, 1955
9:15 pm standard
Bill Gates
1955 chart--very interesting. No earth signs and a pronounced Moon singleton by location. People with no earth don't exactly lack common sense and practicality, but their solutions for taking care of earthy things are often unusual. I've found many of them are cooks, but their cooking is unique (which can be good or bad). They lack "common sense" and make up for it by using intellect, not very connected to their bodies and have a strange way of dealing with the senses. Often overweight from overeating, since lacking in earth--eating helps give them ballast.
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Not sure if any of that applies. He's definitely uses intellect, but I'm not sure if it's to make up for lack of common sense. He's definitely not overweight. As for "connected to their bodies" or "strange way of dealing with senses"; I'm not even sure what that means.
Moon singleton in career house. Fluctuating career. Here's where I make a fool of myself. What career involves emotional dominance? I don't know, but career was important. Whatever it was, he or she was the boss.
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He definitely is the boss, but he doesn't appear to be very emotionally dominant. I'd say this would fit a Donald Trump more than a Bill Gates. As for Fluctuating career, it doesn't seem to fluctuate much. It's pretty much continues to go up and up.

This next one I'd say is the closest one

Cincinnati, Ohio
Nov 12, 1934
4:40 pm standard
Charles Manson
1934 chart--Uranus 12th house Aries singleton. Weird. Explosive eccentric personality. Good angles, so this probably didn't cause the person too many problems, and he or she might have been able to keep it hidden, but that's a person marching to a different drummer. Good, passionate and interesting marriage. I'm not saying this person's a bad person, but someone who when severely challenged would be apt to do very surprising and perhaps somewhat violent things.
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 definitely weird, eccentric, violent, and marching to a different drummer. But I would say that it caused him some problems, and he didn't keep it hidden very well. Atleast not as well as most of us would have hoped. I don't believe he was ever married, and his relationship with his "family" wasn't what I'd call good. Still definitely a bad person.

I'd have liked to see if you could guess which person went with which horoscope. But you would have been able to tell that from the dates. All in all, not bad
 
Very interesting. That Martin Luther King must be wrong, pretty sure he had a T-square. Unless I overlooked it, and if I did I really do suck. :D

Oddly enough, almost used Bill Gates as an example of someone with no earth, he's kind of famous for that. That's what I mean, very weird approach to solving commonsense stuff, at least the idea of computers was considered that at the time. An impractical way to solve practical matters.

Charles Manson I was being polite. I was worried he was your grandfather or something, don't like to tell people their relatives have the chart of an axe murderer. On the other hand, such a chart can also bring on revolutionary greatness--depends on the man. But generally I would give a wide berth to anyone who has a Saturn or Uranus singleton in the 12th house, especially in a fire sign, especially in Aries.

I could do that, pick out the serial killer out of five charts or something. But I could also look up that birthdate info online, wouldn't be a very rigorous test.

That's what Bob Marks is doing, coming up with an astrological protocol for general characteristics of serial killer charts. Would be unsportsmanlike to horn in on that going for the million, but I'm happy to do it here. Problem is getting accurate birth times for the killers.

Now I'm wondering if Manson was ever married. Oy, I take this stuff too seriously.

BTW, 12th house is the house of secrecy, dreams, insanity, spirituality, psychic power, hospitals, prisons, and any confinement or incarceration. So my guessing "something kept hidden" was the wrong guess. Imprisonment was the answer. Another reason why astrology is maddeningly vague.
 
Marrena said:
Oh, it dawns on me that the pic you posted was an actual star chart. I'm not sure how close the signs of the zodiac actually fit the constellations. Basically each sign is exactly one twelfth of the circumference of the sky, from an earth point of view. So yes, it may not match the constellations exactly, perhaps not even close. Let me think, the delineations of the zodiac match the equinoxes and solstices exactly. The Sun enters Aries at the exact moment of the spring equinox, etc.
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They used to fit pretty close but that was about 3000 years ago. Due to a sort of wobble in the Earths axis of rotation an effect called precession of the equinoxes gradually causes the position of the equinoxes to move back along the ecliptic by about 50 arcseconds per year. The vernal equinox for 2004 was on March 20th. The sun was not in aries it was in pisces (toward aquarius) that day. The autumnal equinox will be on September 22nd this year. According to astrological charts the sun should be right on the cusp of virgo/libra at that time. Go out about an hour after sundown and (if it's dark enough where you are) you will see libra and part of virgo still above the horizon because the sun will be way over by the cusp of virgo/leo.

If you like you can go to Sky & Telescope magazine's website and use their nifty free sky chart program to see where everything will be for any given date. You will find that the sun is always one sign of the zodiac behind the dates given by astrological charts.

Don't worry. It'll all fall back into place in about another 23,000 years.

If horoscopes are supposed to be based on the positions of the sun, moon and planets against the constellations of the zodiac then they should at least get those positions right.

Here's a question to think about...

No matter where you live the sun, moon, planets and every other asteroid and celestial body pass through the sky once every day because of the Earth's rotation. So if we happen to be speaking about Mars on, say September 14th, it will be directly overhead at noon because it will be at conjunction with the sun. Therefore anyone born at noon that day will have Mars in their midheaven. Now jump forward to November 5th of next year. Mars will be at opposition and anyone born at midnight will have Mars in their midheaven. At opposition Mars is only one half Earth-sun distance away from us. At conjunction Mars is 5 times further away and on the other side of the sun. Does it really make sense that the influence of Mars in your 10th house could be the same in both cases? If so why should it make any difference 12 hours later when you are one Earth diameter further away from Mars on the other side of the Earth? Or anywhere in between for that matter?
 
No, JPK's chart is the clincher. That one's dead wrong. Especially after the further description--that's Aries in a chart someplace, and your birthtime was certainly accurate within an hour from what you have said.

Well, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Never mind. Not saying if astrology is right or wrong, but if it works, I'm not experienced enough yet to be credible. Thank you everyone for helping me with this.

Will stick around for the next few days while I'm on vacation, and will undoubtedly pop in next year with some other crackpot theory. I've got very high dopamine levels, and one thing I am certain of--psychic powers may or may not exist, but the conviction one has them increases with the amount of dopamine in the system. Mine are high because I take tremendous amounts of fish oil.
 
Chin up Marrena... It's can't be 100% right could it? I mean what is? I'm sure if you look deep enough there will be an astrological explanation for the problem. Did you take into account Planet X? :)
Besides it was a lot of fun and I really do apreciate the time you put into doing th charts. And I see there is a fellow Plainfiedian here. S'up JJ.
JPK
 
Okay, one last time, astrology has nothing to do with gravity. And the zodiac signs have nothing to do with the actual zodiac constellations (at least not anymore). It's a supernatural phenomenon. I'm assuming there's some physical law governing it since there are (maddeningly vague) rules about it but not one that makes any sense to me from a physics point of view.

The reason I believe it is because I started reading my horoscope at astro.com the day after, and it fit every day, especially obvious things like moon square moon--those were days I'd get in the most arguments. So I started reading it ahead of time and my life runs smoother now. I'm very practical.

Interesting trivia--the spin you are talking about is causing a backwards transit through the zodiac. This is what astrologers mean when they talk about the Age of Aquarius for example. Each age lasts around two thousand years. We are just leaving the Age of Pisces, age of the Fish, characterized by belief in illusion and spirituality, romantic love, poetry, compassion and empathy. Now entering Age of Aquarius, characterized by modernity, gadgetry, equalizing of all, brotherhood, social justice and eccentricity. Also possibly sudden revolution, but hopefully not.
 
What the hell, will do jj's chart in the spirit of harmless fun.

Okay, obviously someone that young this chart wouldn't show proof anyhow, not with concrete things. For example her sun is in the ninth house (amazing amount of ninth house stuff in this forum) house of higher education and travel. She should definitely go to college.

One thing I will say--her chart is very clear about this--VERY moody. And sensitive, must get awful PMS. Um, Pluto in Scorpio on the cusp of the 8th house--don't want to comment further considering her age, but make sure she knows about the birds and the bees.

Balanced chart, nothing really stands out. Aries rising--that gives an impulsive and aggressive way of dealing with the world, she likes to be first, the leader.

Interesting in the house of career, she's got Uranus conjuncting Neptune in Capricorn. Everyone in her generation will have that, but not in their career house. Last time that happened was during the Victorian Age, I believe, produced lots of visionary and revolutionary architecture (Capricorn is the sign of building). Hard to predict how that will manifest--but must be a stable and conservative way of manifesting fantastical imagination and novel and modern ways of doing things. That's so vague as to be meaningless, never mind, oh hell, this is for fun now.
 
Some late-night questions

Hi, I've enjoyed reading this. I'm sure this issue has been covered, but to save time maybe someone could help me "get" astrological explanations for the importance of the moment of birth. What constitutes birth, and why? When natural labor and childbirth was often protracted and sadly resulted in death, I can understand that the exact moment of a live human birth could be greeted with many happy feelings, the idea of a birthday as a unique special day to us, etc. How does that relate to things like induced labor, c-sections, etc? If I was born by the decision of a surgeon, and that could have happened a day or two either way, what sort of difference does that make to the chart? What is the defining moment of birth? When baby skin meets air and the influence of the planets? When the umbilical cord is cut and my independent life began? Do twins born moments apart invariably manifest aspects of the same chart? I suppose a sick premature infant with good birth timing might be better off than a less-lucky, but healthy full-term child. Could we put this to use and schedule our deliveries for auspicious times? Or would such meddling negate the influence of the timing/location in a way that we can't predict or describe? What will happen to the first human born on a space ship away from Earth?

Just a few questions that come to mind. Speaking for myself, they're the sort of questions whose answers would need to be convincing in order to persuade me to spend much time thinking about astrology as a descriptive or predictive tool for practical use. As a springboard for imagination and self-reflection, these readings seem kind of like the tarot-- rich symbols that are closer to myth interpretations like Campbell's or Jung's. Revealing of interesting things about human minds and psychology, but not so much about the physical world.
 
JPK said:

Besides it was a lot of fun and I really do apreciate the time you put into doing th charts. And I see there is a fellow Plainfiedian here. S'up JJ.
JPK
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Well, my offspring were born, one on Summit, one in Muhlenberg.

But last time I lived in North Plainfield was, um, the year of the two great snowstorms, um '78? was it?

Moved to Warren for a long time, then Morristown.
 
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