Arafat Assassinated?

[HoverBoarder]

It would be murder.

It's pretty hard to know who I would support my country murdering.

Ideally, I would like there to be no murders. Even for the worst of individuals. I think the death penalty is generally counterproductive, and it helps reinforce a culture of killing and revenge that only causes more people to die.

On a National level, there are more effective ways of dealing with crime than killing people, or creating gang run prison criminal factories, but Internationally, it is much more complicated.


On the surface, my decesion on whether or not to kill:

OBL would be a yes.

Anwar al-Awlaki, tentatively yes.

All of the people on the drone hit list, it is hard for me to know.


For the first two people that I mentioned, it may not have been possible to get them to be taken to a country where they would be held responsible for their role in planning and carrying out attacks in the US, and preventing their killing could very well have been the same as supporting the murder of future Americans that both men were planning before their death.

However, our drone attacks and extrajudical killings have not exactly halted support for the next OBL or Anwar al-Awlaki, but I don't know if the question is as straightforward as supporting a kill list or not.


And while OBL and Anwar al-Awlaki is one thing, Arafat is on a whole different level. The information provided is already enough to support an investigation into the matter, and if Israel is found to be involved, it could create a whole new review of the US relationship with the country, especially in regards to the accountability of their actions.

 

[Mycroft]

If you never know when your house or land may be taken from you, you may develop paranoia over time.

The Palestinian-Arabs are just as responsible for making peace as the Israelis are. With peace comes security. With Security comes prosperity.

 

[geni]

The Palestinian-Arabs are just as responsible for making peace as the Israelis are. With peace comes security.

European history suggests otherwise.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Looks like there is going to be French, Russian, and Swiss investigators looking into the poisoning on Arafat's body itself, and Suha Arafat has called for an official French murder investigation into the poisoning case.

Palestinians Prepare to Exhume Arafat to Check for Poison

The West Bank tomb of Yasir Arafat has been cordoned off and screened from public view ahead of an expected exhumation, a Palestinian Authority official said Tuesday, four months after a television investigation raised new suspicions that the Palestinian leader had been poisoned...

At the University of Lausanne’s Institute of Radiation Physics in Switzerland, doctors found what they said were unusually high levels of a highly toxic radioactive isotope, polonium 210, in certain items but added that further testing of Mr. Arafat’s remains would be necessary before determining that he had been poisoned.

Mrs. Arafat has since requested that the French authorities open a murder inquiry, and on Sunday, Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president and Mr. Arafat’s successor, said Russian experts would also be helping with the investigation. French, Swiss and Russian teams are now expected in Ramallah for testing the remains later this month.

 

[trustbutverify]

It's certainly possible that Israeli command assassinated Arafat. But whether that's the case or not, the purpose of this investigation is solely to support that conclusion. And they better do it, else be accused of being part of the "conspiracy".

 

[Brown]

Arafat's tomb has now been sealed off, and some of the concrete and stones have been removed. According to the BBC, the initial opening of the grave will take about two weeks, and the French and Swiss delegations will arrive on 26 November. Thereafter, the sampling will begin. Meanwhile, the level of buzz is rising. According to a French doctor, "there is absolutely no way the symptoms described in Yasser Arafat’s medical report match those of poisoning by polonium" and the symptoms of polonium poisoning would have been "impossible to miss."

 

[Soapy Sam]

The quite open use of targeted assassination today by Israel makes it plain that they have no reservations about using it.
Now, I prefer assassination to war.
But alternatives to both would be preferable.

I do occasionally wonder how often we would go to war if political leaders were required to lead from the front.

 

[theprestige]

I do occasionally wonder how often we would go to war if political leaders were required to lead from the front.

Once, probably. It'd be a defensive war. We'd be invaded by someone whose political leaders delegated leadership on the front to military professionals. Our own government would be massacred in the first clash. Our troops would wander about aimlessly before surrendering. From then on, we'd go to war whenever our new glorious overlords decreed it, while they quite prudently led from the back.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Once, probably. It'd be a defensive war. We'd be invaded by someone whose political leaders delegated leadership on the front to military professionals.

Doesn't happen any more. Now we have more or less instant communications, the big brains back at base think they can micromanage everything in the field.

Our own government would be massacred in the first clash.

Better and better...

Our troops would wander about aimlessly before surrendering.

Actually, with the gummint removed, they might have a better chance of winning as about 70% of the stupid idea supply would dry up.

From then on, we'd go to war whenever our new glorious overlords decreed it, while they quite prudently led from the back.

Maybe. Can't see Cameron on a white charger. Thatcher in a chariot with axle blades, wielding a spent Uranium handbag, perhaps...

 

[Darth Rotor]

Uh, what if he was 75
had been under stress for a long time (he did have some challenges in his day)
and died.

Is that all that strange of an occurrence?

He was 75 FFS!

My aunt died at 68. No conspiracy grew up around that.

 

[amensae]

My theory... There is no such thing as a natural death. We should all live forever. Therefore every death is murder, covered up by conspiracy. Usually there are Jews involved (but sometimes the CIA).

[Yes, this is sarcasm.]

 

[HoverBoarder]

My theory... There is no such thing as a natural death. We should all live forever. Therefore every death is murder, covered up by conspiracy. Usually there are Jews involved (but sometimes the CIA).

[Yes, this is sarcasm.]

I would agree, anytime anyone dies, ever, it definitely involves the killers of the grown up baby jesus.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Uh, what if he was 75
had been under stress for a long time (he did have some challenges in his day)
and died.

Is that all that strange of an occurrence?

He was 75 FFS!

My aunt died at 68. No conspiracy grew up around that.

I guess we will see.

Generally people that die of natural causes do not have that high of levels of polonium on their personal items, but the body is being examined now.


I did hear in interview today that noted that some Palestinian authorities are very nervous because any finding of poisoning would in their words "put negotiation off for a generation."

However, if anything I think it would be the opposite. It would give them a stronger hand and possibly dissuade the Israelis from carrying out as many assassinations.

 

[Brown]

The rooting around in the corpse has begun.

Supposedly there will be multiple samples, multiple tests, conducted in different countries. One of the more disturbing possibilities is that those who conduct the tests come to dramatically different conclusions.

There are many possibilities:
1. All tests for polonium are positive. This means that Arafat was poisoned.
2. All tests for polonium are inconclusive. This means that Arafat was poisoned, but that all of the polonium has decayed.
3. All tests for polonium are negative. This means that Arafat was poisoned, but that there is a conspiracy to cover-up that fact.
4. Some test results are positive, some are negative, and some are inconclusive. This means that Arafat was poisoned, because...
(a) the positive tests are the more reliable and the others can be disregarded;
(b) those who got negative or inconclusive results used the least reliable equipment;
(c) a certain Middle-Eastern country bribed some of the investigators;
(d) we just know.

The general feeling among so-called "experts" is that ALL tests might well be inconclusive. Even though the polonium found in Arafat's clothes and toothbrush and other personal belongings was found fairly readily, polonium in the body should have decayed by this time and might not be found quite so readily. The fact that Arafat showed no overt signs of radiation exposure might be deemed to be irrelevant by those with a stake in the outcome.

I am wondering whether there is any possible conclusion to this story that may set the issue to rest.

 

[amensae]

It's certainly possible that Israeli command assassinated Arafat. But whether that's the case or not, the purpose of this investigation is solely to support that conclusion. And they better do it, else be accused of being part of the "conspiracy".

The desired outcome of the “investigation”would appear to be:
(1) Arafat was assassinated.
(2) The Jews did it.
The fact that Israel had no reasonable motive (Arafat having been increasingly marginalized for years) but the highly factionalized Palestinians did is obviously irrelevant.
A thousand years from now, if the Jews still exist, they will still be blamed for every war, every assassination, every economic recession and every natural disaster.

The fact that Arafat showed no overt signs of radiation exposure might be deemed to be irrelevant by those with a stake in the outcome.
I am wondering whether there is any possible conclusion to this story that may set the issue to rest.

I strongly suspect the answer is “no.”

 

[HoverBoarder]

The desired outcome of the “investigation”would appear to be:
(1) Arafat was assassinated.
(2) The Jews did it.

What if they did do it though. Who else would have the motive and the means to carry out polonium poisoning?

The fact that Israel had no reasonable motive (Arafat having been increasingly marginalized for years) but the highly factionalized Palestinians did is obviously irrelevant.

Explain your hypothesis further since that is quite a stretch.

Do you really think Israel had no motive at all, and do you really think Hamas had access to polonium?

A thousand years from now, if the Jews still exist, they will still be blamed for every war, every assassination, every economic recession and every natural disaster.

What about the assassinations they did carry out though? Including the recent ones? Should those be ignored and excused just because there are anti-Semites in the world?

The general feeling among so-called "experts" is that ALL tests might well be inconclusive. Even though the polonium found in Arafat's clothes and toothbrush and other personal belongings was found fairly readily, polonium in the body should have decayed by this time and might not be found quite so readily. The fact that Arafat showed no overt signs of radiation exposure might be deemed to be irrelevant by those with a stake in the outcome.

I am wondering whether there is any possible conclusion to this story that may set the issue to rest.

I strongly suspect the answer is “no.”

Interesting the part that you cut out from his post. It kind of changes the statement that you are responding to.

 

[Ziggurat]

What if they did do it though. Who else would have the motive and the means to carry out polonium poisoning?

The evidence that he was poisoned at all is essentially non-existent. The tests for Polonium were on items which have an unknown custody trail.

Do you really think Israel had no motive at all, and do you really think Hamas had access to polonium?

I think Israel didn't have sufficient motive to try such a messy method as polonium poisoning. And I don't think natural causes can be ruled out. Arafat was looking like crap, and ignoring his doctors, for years before he kicked the bucket. He was an old guy in bad health. No nefarious means by anybody are required to explain him dying.

What about the assassinations they did carry out though? Including the recent ones? Should those be ignored and excused just because there are anti-Semites in the world?

No, we should consider them carefully: do the methods match? No they don't. Do the target profiles match? No they don't. Consideration of known Israeli assassinations points away from them having killed Arafat, not towards it.

 

[JihadJane]

The desired outcome of the “investigation”would appear to be:
(1) Arafat was assassinated.
(2) The Jews did it.
The fact that Israel had no reasonable motive (Arafat having been increasingly marginalized for years) but the highly factionalized Palestinians did is obviously irrelevant.
A thousand years from now, if the Jews still exist, they will still be blamed for every war, every assassination, every economic recession and every natural disaster.

Yeah, just like they are now, not!


When you say "Jews" do you mean Israel?

The quite open use of targeted assassination today by Israel makes it plain that they have no reservations about using it.
Now, I prefer assassination to war.
But alternatives to both would be preferable.

I do occasionally wonder how often we would go to war if political leaders were required to lead from the front.

<SNIP>

SNIPed; not appropriate for the Forum.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Edited by Locknar: 

Moderated content removed.

As soon as you make a valid argument or make a useful contribution to the thread instead of playing the anti-Israel cheerleading squad.

 

[trustbutverify]

Edited by Locknar: 

Moderated content removed.

Maybe you should focus on erasing the cancerous Zionist tumor from the pages of time first. One thing at a time.