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Another School Shooting, time to attack Michael Moore again

No other nation on earth has the problem to this degree.
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I think there was a school massacre in Germany few years ago, but the guy only had a small gun. Also, he was on his twenties, he went back to his old schoold, which had expelled him in the past.

I am convinced gun control is necessary, a lot of teens have extreme depression and psychotic episodes. Keep the guns out of sight.
Although I would really prefer a education reform, where people can walk away from negative situations and autodestructive patterns withouth compromising their future.
 
Why are they withholding the kid's name? None of the news reports I've seen have given it.
 
"The truth is that the violence in schools is falling."


And that school shootings like this are so rare, that the numbers are too low to analyze.

Which facts are studiously ignored by those who want *more* tragedies like this one, so they can use them to promote a political agenda, and others who profiteer from death, such as the media, which has to resort to repeatedly ariing the same clips over and over to keep alarming people, since fresh ones occur so seldom.
 
a_unique_person said:
Yep, MM is a proven fraud, liar, etc, etc, much like Ann Coulter, I hear.

Meanwhile, another school shooting. Something is seriously wrong, so it must be time for some more nitpicking on just who did what and cut what where.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/school.shooting/index.html
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You have lost me. Every time there is a shooting it is the anti-gun crowd that kicks into high gear.
 
peptoabysmal said:
How exactly does a single crime on a Native American reservation near the Canadian border make the voices in your head tell you that everything Michael Moore says is gospel? This post is so full of fallacious thinking, anecdotal evidence and unscientific anti-American spin that I don't even know where to begin.
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How exactly does the OP make the voices in your head tell you that what was being said was that everything Michael Moore says is gospel?

Talk about fallacious thinking...maybe you should "begin" in the mirror.
 
RussDill said:
I blame video games, particularly the Sims 2.
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I don't have enough information to formally assign blame. Until then, I'll fall back on my favorite scapegoat and blame the unions.

Actually, I see that the shooting took place near the Canadian boarder. That explains a lot. Those damn Canadians are always sneaking across our boarder and causing all kinds of mayhem, especially the ones with recording contracts. :mad:
 
There is in police circles the "cat out of the bag" theory. A spectacular incident occurs, and it gets into the collective mind of the disturbed.
"Hmmm, shoot up a bunch of people...Seems like a good idea!"

I wonder what the first mass-murder of this sort was.

There have been crime-related massacres, of course, and similar situations occurring in war, but for a seemingly normal person to "go postal" and shoot up as many people as possible seems to be a fairly recent phenomenon.

The earliest one I recall is Charles Stuart Whitman, of Texas Tower fame. This resulted in a number of pop-culture responses, including Harry Chapin's "Sniper", and of course, Kinky Friedman's "The Ballad of Charles Whitman".

This incident preceeded by many years the pop term "going Postal", which seems to have originated in the mid-80s.

We have the related phenomenon of the individual who kills his/her entire family, then suicides. We handled one of these circa 1972, a disturbed woman shot her 6-member familiy then herself with a lever-action 30-30.
 
a_unique_person said:
Michael Moore asked some serious questions, and the response was to attack him. Why are these tragedies happening?
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MM did not merely ask some serious questions. He asked rhetorical questions. Not only that, but his rhetoric was polemic in nature, and his methods are blatently dishonest.

If the man wanted to ask serious questions and get serious answers then he would refrain from his biased and dishonest methods. But that's not what he wanted to do.

We don't attack MM because he is a moonbat....we attack him, (and quite rightly) because he is a dishonest polemicist.

-z
 
a_unique_person said:
The real issue is, why the school massacres. No other nation on earth has the problem to this degree. To just write it off as statistically insignificant is not a response to the issue that I would expect.
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You have no answers. Moore has no answers. America has many problems. Violence in schools is decreasing. The likelihood of being shot in school is small. I can find no purpose for your thread.

Armed guards, security and metal detectors are one answer, but, once again, why the problem?
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I don't know AUP. Moore doesn't and you don't either. We can speculate and offer conjecture but to what end? That there is a problem proves nothing except that there is a problem that causes deaths in amongst a small number of our citizens. Tragic but the hand wringing will solve nothing.

I don't think anyone on the planet feels good about these events, it doesn't matter what country you are in. As for the post, someone was surely going to start a thread on this, so I did. Michael Moore asked some serious questions, and the response was to attack him. Why are these tragedies happening?
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He was attacked for being a jerk. He edited his film in a way to mislead and distort the truth. He was contradictory and did exactly what he complained about others doing. He was rightly attacked. In the end he offers no solutions and only questions to a problem that offers no easy solutions and is only responsible for a small number of deaths. Again, the deaths are tragic but to what end will the hand wring bring? And is the attention proportionate to the degree of harm these incidents cause?
 
Michael Moore had a fair stab at asking why these tragedies occur,

Not really. He "decided" in advance it's all the NRA or "gun lobby"'s fault, and that if only guns are banned this won't happen. His blatantly dishonest attempt to "look for other answers" was merely a rhetorical device: knocking down a set of strawmen to make himself look "fair", not that anybody fell for that particular bit of dishonestly.

even if his polemics sometimes seemed to prevent many from understanding the sense behind the show. The tragedies are still occurring, and America seems no closer to understanding why.

Well, that might be because Americans have more common sense than to trust dishonest propagandists like Michael Moore to tell them the "real reason" why such shootings happen.

But, more to the point, people in America DO know why such shootings happen. As Chris Rock said: "Whatever happened to 'crazy'?". Some guys will always be violent thugs who care nothing for human life (which, incidentally, means "A Unique Person" is not likely to run out of "freedom fighters" to support any time soon.)

What we have here is the common case of the rare event overreported in the media due to their dramatic impact. In fact the frequency of such incidents are falling. It has been five years, almost, since the last incident of comparable magnitude; in the meantime, somewhat greater concerns--like blowing up the Twin Towers--had been considered more important.

Judging by frequency and the chance one has of dying of such an event, you might as well whine, "ligthtning still kills Americans every year and Americans seem not to understand why this is happening". There is actually little to "undestand".
 
"Judging by frequency and the chance one has of dying of such an event, you might as well whine, "ligthtning still kills Americans every year and Americans seem not to understand why this is happening". There is actually little to "undestand"...."

Except that whining and calling attention to lightning in an overhyped manner is very unlikely to actually increase the number of lightning deaths.

But sensationalizing these schoolyards shootings just might, over time, start to reverse the current trend, and then the media and people like AUP can have something to vultch over more and more often.
 
Originally posted by Skeptic
Not really. He "decided" in advance it's all the NRA or "gun lobby"'s fault, and that if only guns are banned this won't happen. His blatantly dishonest attempt to "look for other answers" was merely a rhetorical device: knocking down a set of strawmen to make himself look "fair", not that anybody fell for that particular bit of dishonestly.
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Actually he blames it on the violent (gun) culture, not the NRA.
 
Hmmm... a Brady Campaign link.......wonder if I should bother to click on it....... will it be biased or fair........

I have always wondered why there are unarmed security guards.

Of course there is no guarantee that an armed guard would have stopped this kid.

No current or proposed GC law would have helped either as far as I can see.
 
Re: Why the NRA?

Electron #1 said:
Perhaps the problem with the NRA is: in a time of school
and public shootings they are pushing legislation to prevent victims of gun violence from suing the people who are selling the guns to traffickers.
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I'm not sure what this has to do with MM and his film. The argument has been made that "Actually he (Moore) blames it on the violent (gun) culture, not the NRA". You now seem to be saying that the NRA is responsible if only indirectly. Do you disagree with AWPrime?
 
Yeah you better watch out ,clicking on a Gun Control advocacy site is a mortal sin and will automatically revoke your NRA membership......

Heres the bill.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/?&Db=d109&querybd=@FIELD(FLD001+@4(Retail+trade))


" 6. H.R.800 : To prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages or injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others."

"Misuse"? Guns are machines which sole purpose are to wound or kill humans or other animals.

Best cover your eyes more from the Brady link.

"If similar legislation had passed last year, it would have let off the hook the gun dealer that "lost" not only the sniper rifle used by the DC area snipers but 238 other guns, along with other dealers that recklessly put guns into the hands of gun traffickers and have since agreed to pay damages. Since the legislation was defeated last year, a gun manufacturer and three gun dealers have settled three high-profile cases for substantial damages:

Gun Dealer Changes Practices, Compensates Wounded Police Officers - In June 2004, Ken McGuire and Dave Lemongello, former New Jersey police officers shot in the line of duty with a trafficked gun negligently sold by a West Virginia dealer, ,won a $1 million settlement. The dealer had sold the gun, along with 11 other handguns, in a cash sale to a straw buyer for a gun trafficker. After the lawsuit, the dealer, as well as two other area pawnshops, agreed to implement safer practices to prevent sales to traffickers, including a new policy of ending large volume sales of handguns. These practices go beyond the law and are not imposed by any manufacturers or distributors."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.php?release=632
 
Electron #1 said:
" 6. H.R.800 : To prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages or injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others."

"Misuse"? Guns are machines which sole purpose are to wound or kill humans or other animals
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Gun manufacturers don't make guns with the intent that they (guns) be used illegally. They don't manufacture guns with the intent that they be used negligently.

The word is appropriately used since gun manufacturers are being targeted for the actions of others who use the guns in a way that was not intended by the manufacturer.
 
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