Another Mineta thread

[Cheap Shot]

NEADS or NORAD cannot put SIM targets on FAA radar scopes. Even the FAA can't put SIM targets on our own scopes. Whenever we run problems in the DYSIM, we have to disengage from the live feed.

We were not aware of vigilant guardian on 9-11, that does not mean other centers may have been involved or had knowledge. Every center involed would receive SPINS on the exercise if we were to be involved.

It is not uncommon for the military to run exercises without FAA knowledge if they are going to run it using SIM targets, the FAA doesnt need to have knowledge. Using my name in a SIM exercise was done, probably made it more realistic, since in the past I have provided Inputs during exercises that FAA was involved in.

FAA HQ did not have radar feed on 9-11, they had the TSD only and probably numerous locations. The ATCSCC has only TSD capability. The only location that I know of that has the ability to handle all the radar feeds is the Atlantic Tech site, and they didn't have that capability on 9-11 I believe. Even now I don't know if they the capability to have them all feed at once.

Ben Sliney made the call to shut the airspace down, I know that personally.

He had inputs from Supevisors and Traffic management personnel as well. Even though it was his first day as the NOM his experience prior to that made him an excellent candidate for job that day. When he made the decision that morning he knows it was all his decision, and his decision only, that is he type of guy he is.

Hope this helps.

 

[Boone 870]

NEADS or NORAD cannot put SIM targets on FAA radar scopes. Even the FAA can't put SIM targets on our own scopes. Whenever we run problems in the DYSIM, we have to disengage from the live feed.

I remember you saying this before on this forum but I couldn't find the quotes using the search function.

FAA HQ did not have radar feed on 9-11, they had the TSD only and probably numerous locations.

Notes from the 9/11 commission interviews say the same thing. There were multiple TSD displays located throughout the FAA HQ.

The ATCSCC has only TSD capability.

This surprises me. I had just assumed after listening to the recordings from the Command Center they had actual radar feeds. Thanks for correcting me.

Ben Sliney made the call to shut the airspace down, I know that personally. He had inputs from Supevisors and Traffic management personnel as well. Even though it was his first day as the NOM his experience prior to that made him an excellent candidate for job that day. When he made the decision that morning he knows it was all his decision, and his decision only, that is he type of guy he is.

It seems everyone without an "inside job" agenda knows this also. Even Mineta says the planes were already landing when he said, "****pilot discretion."

Hope this helps.

It does, thank you.

 

[Senenmut]

Again, the plane they were describing came from the west of Dulles, not from the northwest as Mineta has described. Belger said he did not discuss this plane with Mineta. No matter how hard you try and spin it, Belger was not talking to Mineta as Flight 77 approached the Pentagon.

if you go straight from dulles and when you hit the river, you are about 20 miles out DRA. he said he did not discuss the plane that hit the pentagon with mineta..... if someone showed him the offical flightpath and said this is what hit the pentagon, then he would say that he did not speak to mineta about flight 77 approacing the pentagon b/c it was a different flightpath.

This argument is not going to fly either. Belger said he was watching it on the screen, NORAD does not have the capability to insert "inputs" on FAA radar or TSDs.

i didnt say that norad has that capability. im guessing that false information on one of those nets provided belger with the info. more speciffically from the ACC. im still looking into it. its a research in progress.

I don't believe anyone was lying, I believe they were inaccurate with the 9:33 time of arrival in the PEOC. Other records say 9:52, other records say Mrs. Cheney was there after the Pentagon crash, and none of the records say Mineta was there before Mrs. Cheney.

i bet you knew exactly what you were doing when you first heard/saw 911 on the tv. when mineta walked into the peoc and cochrane was saying 50 miles out and the VP was saying this and that, i think he is going to remember that.

Again, let's go with the 9:33 arrival time in the PEOC and put Mineta's arrival 1 min. later at 9:34. American 77 was less than 20 miles away from the White House, whereas Mineta says the plane was 80/50 miles out when he was there. The times and distances simply do not work out.

well, that griffith says this about what he told the ACC and secret service.
griggith:
"There was a fast-mover 30 miles west of Dulles moving east bound - he did not know it was AAL 77 at the time. Griffith said he got the information on flight 77. He recalls that he had this information and he shared it with the people in the ACC. He doesn't know where the information came from. He recalls that there is a requirement at Washington National Airport to report all unusual aircraft situations to Secret Service. Someone told
him we did contact the Secret Service, so he was satisfied."

so 30 miles out from dulles then another 20 from dulles to DC. that adds up to about 50 miles out. coincidence?

I'm not understanding your hangup with the ACC. If Belger had claimed he went to the ACC and stayed there for the duration of the events, you may have something. Until then, Belger said he was in his office and the WOC.

i think that is where belger got the info about the DRA "target" or "bogey". it was in the same room as the WOC. so he was running in and out of the ACC. ive already shown you this.
from weikert:
"We were trying to raise them when we were tracking the plane that crashed in the Pentagon. Belger was in the room at the time. He was monitoring both nets. "

So what? Belger was watching something on some kind of "screen." The TSD there was not working and you have been unable to prove that there were actual radar feeds at the head quarters. Even if there were, Belger was not relaying information to Mineta as flight 77 was approaching the Pentagon. Why can't you understand this simple fact?

i think he was receiving info on the nets in the ACC. that is where he got the info. the tsd was no working in the ACC and he stated that in the WOC it was used to monitor the aircrafts still airborne.

It doesn't matter. He said he was not talking to Mineta about the aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon. The track he was describing came from the northwest.

already addressed.

IT DOESN'T MATTER! NORAD cannot insert inputs into the FAA's system.

but norads "inputs" can probably get confused and passed along the nets somehow.

 

[BCR]

Blah, blah, blah .... blah

But you still have not told me what Cheney ordered on his pizza.

 

[Spanx]

But you still have not told me what Cheney ordered on his pizza.

I believe it was a hot and spicey thermite feast.

 

[Boone 870]

if you go straight from dulles and when you hit the river, you are about 20 miles out DRA. he said he did not discuss the plane that hit the pentagon with mineta..... if someone showed him the offical flightpath and said this is what hit the pentagon, then he would say that he did not speak to mineta about flight 77 approacing the pentagon b/c it was a different flightpath.

Flight 77 did not continue east to a point that it could be considered the DRA, it turned to the south well before it got to the Potomac. No one describes the path you're trying to conjure up. And most importantly, Belger did not discuss this with Mineta.

i didnt say that norad has that capability. im guessing that false information on one of those nets provided belger with the info. more speciffically from the ACC. im still looking into it. its a research in progress.

Wrong. The information coming from the net would've been in the form of a conversation, not from a screen as Mineta has claimed.

i bet you knew exactly what you were doing when you first heard/saw 911 on the tv. when mineta walked into the peoc and cochrane was saying 50 miles out and the VP was saying this and that, i think he is going to remember that.

I remember quite clearly. But I didn't remember the times at all.

well, that griffith says this about what he told the ACC and secret service.
griggith:
"There was a fast-mover 30 miles west of Dulles moving east bound - he did not know it was AAL 77 at the time. Griffith said he got the information on flight 77. He recalls that he had this information and he shared it with the people in the ACC. He doesn't know where the information came from. He recalls that there is a requirement at Washington National Airport to report all unusual aircraft situations to Secret Service. Someone told
him we did contact the Secret Service, so he was satisfied."

so 30 miles out from dulles then another 20 from dulles to DC. that adds up to about 50 miles out. coincidence?

Belger did not discuss this aircraft with Mineta.

i think that is where belger got the info about the DRA "target" or "bogey". it was in the same room as the WOC. so he was running in and out of the ACC. ive already shown you this.
from weikert:
"We were trying to raise them when we were tracking the plane that crashed in the Pentagon. Belger was in the room at the time. He was monitoring both nets. "

Belger did not discuss this aircraft with Mineta.

i think he was receiving info on the nets in the ACC. that is where he got the info. the tsd was no working in the ACC and he stated that in the WOC it was used to monitor the aircrafts still airborne.

Mineta said Belger was giving aircraft positions from some kind of screen, there were no screens in the ACC, only phones.

but norads "inputs" can probably get confused and passed along the nets somehow.

More conjuring.

 

[cjnewson88]

How many times must one repeat the same thing over and over again before his opponent will finally understand..

 

[Boone 870]

How many times must one repeat same thing over and over again before his opponent will finally understand.. Wrolleyes:

He understands completely. For whatever reason, Senenmut desperately wants there to be a conspiracy involving a "stand down" order. That is why he is ignoring what the interviews actually say and is trying to spin them into something that fits his belief.

 

[BCR]

He understands completely. For whatever reason, Senenmut desperately wants there to be a conspiracy involving a "stand down" order. That is why he is ignoring what the interviews actually say and is trying to spin them into something that fits his belief.

I'm sorry, Cheney was not talking about a 'stand down' order. All they were asking was whether Cheney wanted to change his pizza order. What evidence do I have for this? About the same as some ridiculous 'stand down' order.

Eyewitnesses speak, pizza revealed!

 

[ozeco41]

...Eyewitnesses speak, pizza revealed!

Would it be stretching the metaphor too far if I suggest that we use the pizza to feed the trolls?

 

[Senenmut]

I'm sorry, Cheney was not talking about a 'stand down' order. All they were asking was whether Cheney wanted to change his pizza order. What evidence do I have for this? About the same as some ridiculous 'stand down' order.

[qimg]http://bluecollarrepublican.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/pizza.jpg[/qimg]

Eyewitnesses speak, pizza revealed!

what!! now you know with him being a heart patient, he is not suppose to eat that greasey, high cholesterol stuff!!!!

 

[Senenmut]

NEADS or NORAD cannot put SIM targets on FAA radar scopes. Even the FAA can't put SIM targets on our own scopes. Whenever we run problems in the DYSIM, we have to disengage from the live feed.

We were not aware of vigilant guardian on 9-11, that does not mean other centers may have been involved or had knowledge. Every center involed would receive SPINS on the exercise if we were to be involved.

what is a SPINS?

It is not uncommon for the military to run exercises without FAA knowledge if they are going to run it using SIM targets, the FAA doesnt need to have knowledge. Using my name in a SIM exercise was done, probably made it more realistic, since in the past I have provided Inputs during exercises that FAA was involved in.

FAA HQ did not have radar feed on 9-11, they had the TSD only and probably numerous locations. The ATCSCC has only TSD capability. The only location that I know of that has the ability to handle all the radar feeds is the Atlantic Tech site, and they didn't have that capability on 9-11 I believe. Even now I don't know if they the capability to have them all feed at once.

Ben Sliney made the call to shut the airspace down, I know that personally.
He had inputs from Supevisors and Traffic management personnel as well. Even though it was his first day as the NOM his experience prior to that made him an excellent candidate for job that day. When he made the decision that morning he knows it was all his decision, and his decision only, that is he type of guy he is.

im sure your aware of belger's interview where it lists the order from mineta at 0945. is that cool with you?

Hope this helps.

i gotta ask a tough question if you are willing to answer. i always appeciate your input. could someone on the net get wrong info/intel if "wargames" were taking place on their screens. take for instance this scenario:
from 911blogger:

NORAD OPERATIONS CENTER ASKS FOR 'EXERCISE INPUTS' TO BE STOPPED
At 10:12 a.m., an officer at the NORAD operations center, "Captain Taylor," called NEADS and spoke to Captain Brian Nagel, the chief of live exercises there. After introducing himself, Taylor said, "What we need you to do right now is to terminate all exercise inputs coming into Cheyenne Mountain." Nagel gave Taylor an extension number and asked him to call it to get the exercise inputs stopped. Taylor replied, "I'll do that." [4] "Inputs," according to an article in Vanity Fair, are simulated scenarios that are put into play by a simulations team during training exercises. [5]

http://911blogger.com/news/2010-08-...isplayed-false-tracks-all-through-911-attacks

 

[beachnut]

what!! now you know with him being a heart patient, he is not suppose to eat that greasey, high cholesterol stuff!!!!

The same evidence used to support the shoot down order. Nothing.

Why can't 911 truth explain what the Mineta stuff means? Why has 911 truth failed to earn a Pulitzer with a newspaper on this massive smoking gun mountain of evidence?

but norads "inputs" can probably get confused and passed along the nets somehow.

Really? How? Oh, more reserach? lol

The nets? lol

How can this get funnier? If it was not involved with an attack by 19 nuts mislead by a spoiled Saudi, and the murder of many because soldiers were stationed in Saudi Arabia. A spoiled rich kid kills Americans and others; and 911 truth can't grasp reality.

The Saudis wanted to give us real medals for the first gulf war, real gold and silver. The evil state department said, "No". Nice medal, no gold... Is this the real CT? Happy New Year
Some Saudis wanted to give use medals, UBL wanted to kill us. Who knew? All but 911 truth.

 

[LSSBB]

The same evidence used to support the shoot down order. Nothing.

Why can't 911 truth explain what the Mineta stuff means? Why has 911 truth failed to earn a Pulitzer with a newspaper on this massive smoking gun mountain of evidence?



Really? How? Oh, more reserach? lol

The nets? lol

How can this get funnier? If it was not involved with an attack by 19 nuts mislead by a spoiled Saudi, and the murder of many because soldiers were stationed in Saudi Arabia. A spoiled rich kid kills Americans and others; and 911 truth can't grasp reality.

The Saudis wanted to give us real medals for the first gulf war, real gold and silver. The evil state department said, "No". Nice medal, no gold... Is this the real CT? Happy New Year
Some Saudis wanted to give use medals, UBL wanted to kill us. Who knew? All but 911 truth.

I got me one of those KLMs. So gaudy it would look right at home on Khadafi's chest.

 

[beachnut]

I got me one of those KLMs. So gaudy it would look right at home on Khadafi's chest.

Nice Medal if gold and silver...

 

[BCR]

what!! now you know with him being a heart patient, he is not suppose to eat that greasey, high cholesterol stuff!!!!

Why do you think he has heart problems? Duh.

 

[Cheap Shot]

what is a SPINS?

Special Instructions, they use SPINS for most exercises, includes all the players, Special Use Airspace, times of the event, etc.

 

[Cheap Shot]

i gotta ask a tough question if you are willing to answer. i always appeciate your input. could someone on the net get wrong info/intel if "wargames" were taking place on their screens. take for instance this scenario:
from 911blogger:

NORAD OPERATIONS CENTER ASKS FOR 'EXERCISE INPUTS' TO BE STOPPED
At 10:12 a.m., an officer at the NORAD operations center, "Captain Taylor," called NEADS and spoke to Captain Brian Nagel, the chief of live exercises there. After introducing himself, Taylor said, "What we need you to do right now is to terminate all exercise inputs coming into Cheyenne Mountain." Nagel gave Taylor an extension number and asked him to call it to get the exercise inputs stopped. Taylor replied, "I'll do that." [4] "Inputs," according to an article in Vanity Fair, are simulated scenarios that are put into play by a simulations team during training exercises. [5]

http://911blogger.com/news/2010-08-...isplayed-false-tracks-all-through-911-attacks

I would have to say no, they were probably using what they call HUNTRESS 1 & 2 scope for the exercise. One scope would have HUNTRESS the MRU for the Blue forces (good guys), and the other scope would have the Target Controllers Red Forces (the bads guys), these scopes are separate from thier ID section which is "Real World".

I don't know if when they are running SIMS whether they appear on the ID section scope or not, my guess they do not. But my guess when they requested to stop exrecise inputs they were becoming a hindrence, and they asked them to be stopped.

 

[Cheap Shot]

im sure your aware of belger's interview where it lists the order from mineta at 0945. is that cool with you?

Actually I have never read his interview, I have seen snippets, but have not read the whole thing, so I don't have an opinion.

 

[Senenmut]

Actually I have never read his interview, I have seen snippets, but have not read the whole thing, so I don't have an opinion.

thats for your input.

here is where the 0945 came from.

Belger learned of the crash into the Pentagon shortly after it happened. He and Garvey got on the phone with Norm Mineta who decided to bring everything down (around 9:45) which was implemented. Belger continued to monitor the system as it executed this order. All aircraft were down and the system grounded by 12:15.
http://www.911myths.com/images/e/e8...erview-w-Notes-on-MFR-and-a-Redacted-Name.pdf