An Odd Quashing Of Free Speech

[Luke T.]

Link

Lawyers have conjured up a court order to stop details from the next Harry Potter book being revealed ahead of its official release, after several copies were sold by accident in Canada ahead of this Saturday's official publication date. Raincoast Books, which is distributing Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince in Canada, was granted a Draconian "John Doe injunction" by the British Columbia Supreme Court, preventing the buyers from revealing aspects of the novel’s plot.

Such information could prove valuable ahead of the book's release. Online bookmakers have been taking bets on just which leading character will perish in the sixth installment of JK Rowling's hugely successful series.

I'd say all bets are off.

 

[Darat]

Have to give the marketing team this - they know how to stoke up the hype.

I remember after the last one had been published and no reviewer would mention a part of the plot (I think it was the death of a character) so as to “not spoil it”.

For goodness sake it's a book!

I still hold to my prediction that within 20 years the series will be all but forgotten.

 

[Silicon]

It's Hagrid.

 

[Silicon]

I still hold to my prediction that within 20 years the series will be all but forgotten.

I would LOVE to find a way I could put money against you on that bet.


Friggin' "Phantom Tollbooth" is 40 years old, and that thing's still required reading.

Children's literature has a very long shelf-life, assuming it's not something like Pokemon-requiring a media machine to generate continual popularity.

Looking at Amazon's list of bestselling classic children's literature for 12 year olds, I see a lot of books older than 20 years. And not just Treasure Island.

There's Stewart Little, 60 years old.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory from '61. Obviously still a current hit.
Charlotte's Web is over 50.
Multiple Judy Blume titles.

You're telling me that Harry Potter will be forgotten in 20 years, but "Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing" is still a bestseller 30 years later?

 

[pgwenthold]

It's Hagrid.

Grawp is more likely.

 

[Luke T.]

A British newspaper reporter has already claimed that he was shot at in an attempt to recover the book and return it to its publishers in the UK, after an advance copy was allegedly offered for sale.

Wild!

 

[Donks]

A British newspaper reporter has already claimed that he was shot at in an attempt to recover the book and return it to its publishers in the UK, after an advance copy was allegedly offered for sale.

Wild!

Huh... Maybe there is something to the claim that Potter books lead to Satanism. I can see it now "Take my book? Over my dead body! Avada Kedavra!" The reporter just mistook the death spell for a shooting, being a muggle and all.

 

[Darat]

I would LOVE to find a way I could put money against you on that bet.

...snip...

Multiple Judy Blume titles.

You're telling me that Harry Potter will be forgotten in 20 years, but "Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing" is still a bestseller 30 years later?

I'm hoping so. The HP books are absolutely average so I can see nothing to sustain them after the marketing goes. (Fingers crossed.)

 

[richardm]

I'm hoping so. The HP books are absolutely average so I can see nothing to sustain them after the marketing goes. (Fingers crossed.)

Why fingers crossed? Anything that kids like to read is okay by me. Besides, the stories are quite entertaining. The standard of writing is at least as good as Enid Blyton or Richmal Crompton, and their books are still selling nicely.

Why would you want them to die out? (Something I don't see happening, by the way... in 20 years time the current generation of kids who are reading the books will be passing them on to their own children quite happily, IMHO)

 

[Matabiri]

Why would you want them to die out? (Something I don't see happening, by the way... in 20 years time the current generation of kids who are reading the books will be passing them on to their own children quite happily, IMHO)

I don't know... it seems that quite a proportion of Potter readers just don't read other books - they're into those books only, not reading in general. That doesn't strike me as the profile of a person who will encourage their own child to read lots.

 

[drkitten]

I would LOVE to find a way I could put money against you on that bet.


Friggin' "Phantom Tollbooth" is 40 years old, and that thing's still required reading.

Children's literature has a very long shelf-life, assuming it's not something like Pokemon-requiring a media machine to generate continual popularity.

You may be looking at a misleading set of statistics. You're looking at a set of books that are selling well today, and observing that many of them are are old. But a better question is how many of the books that were selling well then continue to sell well today?

For example, of the 24 Newberry Award and Honor books published from 1920-1929, fewer than 10 are currently available from publishers (although there are copies available from specialist shops through Amazon). Your average bricks and mortar bookstore, even a good one, will probably have only one of these books available ("The Voyages of Dr Dolittle"). Who today has even heard of "Nicholas: A Manhattan Christmas Story" by Anne Carroll Moore?

 

[pgwenthold]

For example, of the 24 Newberry Award and Honor books published from 1920-1929, fewer than 10 are currently available from publishers (although there are copies available from specialist shops through Amazon).

While I don't disagree with your general point, I will note that Newberry Award books =/= best sellers.

More to the point, how many of the actual best sellers of 1920 - 1929 are available? And how many were as popular (relatively) as Harry Potter? What is the probability that a book series that breaks all the current records for book sales is still popular in 20 years? Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of examples to look to.

 

[drkitten]

While I don't disagree with your general point, I will note that Newberry Award books =/= best sellers.

More to the point, how many of the actual best sellers of 1920 - 1929 are available?

I don't have data on that (if you have historical data regarding best-sellers of children's literature, please let me know). It's certainly possible, indeed even likely, that the best-sellers in a particular medium will not be especially popular in twenty years.

For example, look at the Billboard records of popular music. In 1960, for example, there are nineteen separate "number 1" hits of which only four or five are still played on "oldies" stations, stations that specialize in that kind of music. Similar numbers hold for 1975 (actually, it's worse, but of course, 1975 was the heart of the disco era which has mercifully mostly been buried).

So simply because something is hugely popular in its day doesn't imply longevity. When was the last time you listened to a Jackson 5 album, or saw a Betty Grable film?

 

[pgwenthold]

I don't have data on that (if you have historical data regarding best-sellers of children's literature, please let me know). It's certainly possible, indeed even likely, that the best-sellers in a particular medium will not be especially popular in twenty years.

For example, look at the Billboard records of popular music. In 1960, for example, there are nineteen separate "number 1" hits of which only four or five are still played on "oldies" stations, stations that specialize in that kind of music. Similar numbers hold for 1975 (actually, it's worse, but of course, 1975 was the heart of the disco era which has mercifully mostly been buried).

So simply because something is hugely popular in its day doesn't imply longevity. When was the last time you listened to a Jackson 5 album, or saw a Betty Grable film?

Or read a Little House or Wizard of Oz book?

OTOH, whereas I may not have boughten a Jackson 5 album, I certainly know who the Jackson 5 and Betty Grable are. I can sing Jackson 5 songs ("One bad apple don't spoil a whole bunch girl") and I can recognize a picture of Betty Grable when I see one. And I know the names of popular albums like Abbey Road and the White Album, which are 30+ years old.

In fact, I think most people still know of the Jackson 5 and Betty Grable. Go back to darat's original claim:

I still hold to my prediction that within 20 years the series will be all but forgotten.

Somehow, it seems that pulling out Betty Grable's name isn't much of an example of how something popular 60 years ago can be "all but forgotten." Just because I don't own a Jackson 5 album doesn't mean they are "all but forgotten," either.

 

[hgc]

....
In fact, I think most people still know of the Jackson 5 and Betty Grable. Go back to darat's original claim:
...

I don't think most people who weren't alive during the time she was a star know who Betty Grable was, nor would they recognize a pin-up of her. I don't think that most people under 30 today ever heard of The Jackson 5, even if they'd recognize the songs.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Like Aristotle, I think there are different kinds of "good". The Potter books are good in the sense that they are entertaining and imaginative, with engaging characters and an interesting plot. They aren't "good" in the sense of Great Literature, but then, sometimes Great Literature is Great but not very good at all.

Five bucks says Dumbledore bites it, or at least appears to, in this book.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I don't think most people who weren't alive during the time she was a star know who Betty Grable was, nor would they recognize a pin-up of her. I don't think that most people under 30 today ever heard of The Jackson 5, even if they'd recognize the songs.

Betty Grable? I don't like those newfangled modern girls.

I like Clara Bow. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrlllllllllll!

 

[Silicon]

I'm hoping so. The HP books are absolutely average so I can see nothing to sustain them after the marketing goes. (Fingers crossed.)

The Harry Potter books were international bestsellers before there was a worldwide marketing machine. The first run of "Philosopher's Stone" was only about 500 books. The first edition of the second and third books was only 10,000 copies each. By the fourth book, the initial run had been increased to 4.8 million copies. The publisher had a legitimate phenomenon on its hands. This was not an invented, hype-driven fad.



You say the books are "absolutely average." Just testing you:

1: How many of them have you read?
2: How many other childrens' books have you read in your adult lifetime?

 

[richardm]

I don't know... it seems that quite a proportion of Potter readers just don't read other books - they're into those books only, not reading in general. That doesn't strike me as the profile of a person who will encourage their own child to read lots.

Well, at the very least they might encourage their child to read Harry Potter It would be interesting to see numbers for that, actually. How many of them really only read HP? How many go to similar books (the Dark Materials, for example), and use HP as a springboard elsewhere? Be interesting to know. HP is a phenomenon inasmuch as it has turned reading into a competitive sport for many kids (see the current Newsround pages for a "How to read quickly" guide, not necessarily something I approve of but interesting to see that kids are interested to improve their reading skills all of a sudden).

At any rate, current levels of literacy in kids leaving school is too low. In 1998 (just after the first book was published), level 4 (the expected standard for their age) was achieved by only 65% of 11-year-olds in English. It's my opinion that even if you're right and the kids only read HP, then that will still have the effect of increasing their literacy, and I can't see that as a bad thing overall.

But putative educational benefits aside - I like 'em myself! I've just finished reading OOTP again to get up to speed for Saturday

Incidentally, I first encountered HP quite late on, when I found Goblet of Fire (the fourth in the series) in a bookshelf in a place I was on holiday at. I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about, but couldn't get on with it at all. The writing style seemed very poor (I'd just finished reading some George MacDonald Fraser so the contrast was particularly stark), and the story confusing with plenty of irrelevancies.

I commented on this to a female friend when I returned, who tutted and told me that I should start with the first book, and stick with it. Then do the rest in order if I wanted to persist.

Lo and behold, I was hooked. Good stuff. Roll on the next one!

 

[Kerberos]

I don't think most people who weren't alive during the time she was a star know who Betty Grable was, nor would they recognize a pin-up of her. I don't think that most people under 30 today ever heard of The Jackson 5, even if they'd recognize the songs.

I've heard of the jackson 5 (I'm 23) though it was hardly instant recognition (I first thought it was a Michael Jackson Album). I have no idea who Betty Grable is/was though, or at least only what I can guess from this thread, hmm.. checks Wikepedia and Google - pretty much what I expected.