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American Humanist Association withdraws Richard Dawkins' Humanist Of The Year award

No, there is no comparison

Dawkins does this in an enabling, facilitating manner, to allow and encourage frank and honest discussion.

No, I'm sorry - but, not really. "That's how it is" is a pronouncement of correctness, not an invitation to "honest discussion". But neither of those is what Dawkins was actually doing in his tweet; he was just being snarky.
 
If only he knew people who organised public debates and if only he knew academics who are willing to participate in public debates then he could actually have seen about enabling such a debate. Unfortunately public speaking is something wholly foreign to him, and so all he could do is post the word "discuss" on twitter.

This is essentially it. Dawkins made a post on Twitter. If he's seriously trying to claim that it was an attempt to start an "academic discussion" then he is consciously lying.
 
This is essentially it. Dawkins made a post on Twitter. If he's seriously trying to claim that it was an attempt to start an "academic discussion" then he is consciously lying.
When I studied, I learned that there were a number of formats for an essay question. "Compare and Contrast" was one. "Discuss" was another. Dawkins, being an academic, was certainly using the word in this context. A literal invitation to a start an academic discussion.

It was, however, completely tone-deaf and entirely inappropriate. He needs a better filter.
 
When I studied, I learned that there were a number of formats for an essay question. "Compare and Contrast" was one. "Discuss" was another. Dawkins, being an academic, was certainly using the word in this context. A literal invitation to a start an academic discussion.

...on Twitter, where such a discussion is literally not possible - something I'm sure Dawkins is keenly aware of.
 
...on Twitter, where such a discussion is literally not possible - something I'm sure Dawkins is keenly aware of.
I've used the word myself on this very forum, where such a discussion is also literally not possible. This use of the word is analogous to the formal academic usage.
 
I've used the word myself on this very forum, where such a discussion is also literally not possible. This use of the word is analogous to the formal academic usage.

You can write long form opinions on here. On Twitter the format is against that and generally speaking the very nature of the medium is against any form of nuanced discussion. Twitter almost completely incentivizes unnuanced extreme views and heckling.
 
Here's an example of that analogous-to-academic usage that I just happened to come across while reading an old thread.

That’s fine. Try writing that on Twitter and you will be deluged with posts about where you can stick your fireworks, how vaccines cause your face to turn purple and the Jews are reptilian shapeshifters.
 
Also threads here remain on a single topic, sequential, and with everybody able to read everything. We've even had specific discussion threads which are moderated and where two people take it in turns to state their opinions and rebut the other person's posts.

Twitter is decentralised, with no real threading. It's not a forum where people can respectfully take turns to address and rebut points, it's a bunch of people all talking at everybody at once.

Indeed, and one sure way of gettin more people to pay attention to you is doing what Dawkins and Trump do, which is to provoke people with your strident views.
 
If you know anything at all about Richard Dawkins you would know that he always frames things this way. He has never ever been shy of discussing sensitive issues openly and frankly... i.e. telling it like it is.

No, there is no comparison

Dawkins does this in an enabling, facilitating manner, to allow and encourage frank and honest discussion.

Trump does it in a way that tries to shut down opposing opinions and ideas because he proclaims to know everything, and therefore anyone who disagrees with him is wrong and must be silenced.

The comparison is apt. And as mentioned you can't be "telling it like it is" and also "just asking questions". Trying to have it both ways is a pretty common gambit for provocateurs though.
 
I like Dawkins, but Twitter is probably the worst thing that ever happened to him. His hobby seems to be writing cringe-inducing Boomer hot takes.
 
Here's an example of that analogous-to-academic usage that I just happened to come across while reading an old thread.

Sure, but, you understand the usage here was ironic, right? That "invitation" did not actually result in an "academic discussion" of the Sydney's New Year fireworks display, nor was it ever expected to. Akhenaten was really just saying here that he liked the fireworks show, and he framed his personal opinion as an academic analysis as a joke.
 
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I've never been that keen on Dawkins myself. I thought he was unnecessarily confrontational in a way that was likely detrimental to the cause of diminishing the power of religion, he always seemed rather rigid and closed-minded to me, and I've never thought he was that good at making an argument. I've been an atheist all my life, and I didn't find The God Delusion contained particularly convincing arguments, so I can't imagine any religious people reading it would think "hmm, maybe I'm wrong" unless they're the kind of religious person who simply has never before considered the possibility that God doesn't exist.

In fact, some of the above can be encapsulated by the title of the book. The word "delusion" is clickbaity, and seems designed more to appeal to militant atheists than to welcome religious people to read it with an open mind. Which is fine if all you want to do is preach to the choir, but that rather makes a lie of the idea that he's trying to have reasoned debates to help people see that religion is wrong and harmful. It's not, it's just masturbation for both Dawkins and the intended audience.

But, then, this is the man who thought that the negative connotations in some quarters of the word "atheist" could be solved by rebranding it to "bright".

I know very little about the American Humanist Association. I've never really understood the need for atheists to group together and be atheists together. But then I live in England where it's not exactly a minority viewpoint. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I lived in the Bible Belt. And it seems that they do legal advocacy, which may be positive depending on the specifics. But in general, any organisation like that is not something that has much relevance to me or my life in any way.

In any case, I don't see the taking away of this award as being much different to awarding it in the first place. The latter is saying "this person aligns with our values" and the former is saying "this person doesn't align with our values".
 
I've never been that keen on Dawkins myself. I thought he was unnecessarily confrontational in a way that was likely detrimental to the cause of diminishing the power of religion, he always seemed rather rigid and closed-minded to me, and I've never thought he was that good at making an argument. I've been an atheist all my life, and I didn't find The God Delusion contained particularly convincing arguments, so I can't imagine any religious people reading it would think "hmm, maybe I'm wrong" unless they're the kind of religious person who simply has never before considered the possibility that God doesn't exist.

In fact, some of the above can be encapsulated by the title of the book. The word "delusion" is clickbaity, and seems designed more to appeal to militant atheists than to welcome religious people to read it with an open mind. Which is fine if all you want to do is preach to the choir, but that rather makes a lie of the idea that he's trying to have reasoned debates to help people see that religion is wrong and harmful. It's not, it's just masturbation for both Dawkins and the intended audience.

But, then, this is the man who thought that the negative connotations in some quarters of the word "atheist" could be solved by rebranding it to "bright".

I know very little about the American Humanist Association. I've never really understood the need for atheists to group together and be atheists together. But then I live in England where it's not exactly a minority viewpoint. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I lived in the Bible Belt. And it seems that they do legal advocacy, which may be positive depending on the specifics. But in general, any organisation like that is not something that has much relevance to me or my life in any way.

In any case, I don't see the taking away of this award as being much different to awarding it in the first place. The latter is saying "this person aligns with our values" and the former is saying "this person doesn't align with our values".

On this front, Dawkins does say that while many of his critics complain that the book won't persuade anyone, that he does actually receive correspondence from people who were persuaded by it, and some of those of course might well be in places such as the Bible Belt, or in Islamic countries etc..., and many others were not so much persuaded as seeing their suspicions or their feelings clearly expressed. And beyond that, preaching to the choir could also be seen as morale-boosting particularly for those who might be an atheist minority within a militant religious family.

Clearly the book must have done something right or it wouldn't have sold so many copies.
 
On this front, Dawkins does say that while many of his critics complain that the book won't persuade anyone, that he does actually receive correspondence from people who were persuaded by it, and some of those of course might well be in places such as the Bible Belt, or in Islamic countries etc..., and many others were not so much persuaded as seeing their suspicions or their feelings clearly expressed.

Who knows how many more could have been persuaded by a more inviting, better-argued book?

And beyond that, preaching to the choir could also be seen as morale-boosting particularly for those who might be an atheist minority within a militant religious family.

That doesn't have to be a trade-off with the other qualities.

Clearly the book must have done something right or it wouldn't have sold so many copies.

How many copies did The Secret sell?
 
Sure. Just like there was a cultural shift away from open debate on whether it's actually okay to own black people as property. As society becomes more tolerant of people different to the average, the dehumanising and demonising of those people becomes less socially acceptable. Seems fairly tautological to me.

Sometimes the zeitgeist shifts in ways that are good. Other times it shifts in ways that are neutral. Other times the shifts are for the worse. The fact that a shift has happened doesn't really tell us anything about whether it's positive or negative.
 
Sometimes the zeitgeist shifts in ways that are good. Other times it shifts in ways that are neutral. Other times the shifts are for the worse. The fact that a shift has happened doesn't really tell us anything about whether it's positive or negative.

I didn't say it did.
 
Just like there was a cultural shift away from open debate on whether it's actually okay to own black people as property.
You are free to believe this analogy is on point. I would ordinarily object, but there is only one thread for that topic.
 
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