ADD-ADHD wtf! is it really

nabiscothejerd

Unregistered
Joined
Apr 28, 2005
Messages
60
when i was about i think 11 or so i was diagnosed with ADD. They ( i mean my doctor and mother) gave me the next miracle drug ritalyn to control me. Let's just say i got addicted to it because when i would debate my mom, SHE OVERDOSED ME ON IT. It helped during footbal and wrestling but when it come to using my mind it did absolutely nothing. I eventually almost got sent to a drug rehabilitation center and me and my mom decided to STOP GIVING ME RITALYN. In betwwen 13 and now i have been training my mind to think quicker and longer with some success ( all on my own). I just really want to know what is ADD?ADHD really , what are the differnces between them? why do I have it?

My hypothesis is that something happens to the RAM motor ( i'm thinking of ram in a computer), has been messed up and less ram equals less brain power. I was very smart before ADD hit me ( yeah right) Probably enough
to convince teachers to skip me grades without even testing! (but not really that smart just dam smart).
Could somebody help me with links or even explain to me about ADD/ADHD.
 
A very simple question that, unfortunately, is after a very complicated answer.

Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) are two subsidaries of a disorder psychologists call 'Autism Spectrum Disorder' (ASD). It also includes Asperger's Syndrome.

The problem is, we as a society have grown used to hearing the names of various disorders and thinking of them like they're diseases. 'I've got ADD' is something like saying 'I've got measles', or 'I've got a broken bone'. We're not used to understanding things like ADD or ASD as something that describes a trait, like 'I've got hair darker than other people's', or 'I carry more body fat'.

It's more useful to see these as traits rather than disorders. Afterall, a condition a person has is simply a variation of a trait that is not as efficient as other forms in a given environment. 'Efficiency' is often arguable, and the environment (with humans, at least) is easily variable itself. Hence the classroom is an environment a lot of ADHD kids find difficult to cope with. Put them into an environment with multiple stimulations, and they can often excel. Asperger's kids are typically rather creative in certain environments.

So firstly, it is far better to deal with ASD as if all of us are on a scale, and ASD are simply one extreme end of it. This is why diagnosis is so tricky. There's no clear definition or marker, as it's a scale of a human variation. A bit like asking when blonde hair becomes brown. When does a lack of ability to remain focussed become ADD? When does the fidgeting become ADHD? It is such a complicated trait (dealing with human psychology and sociology) that pinning it down is hard.

A lot of negativity has come out of this inability for psychologists to be able to agree on what it is exactly. Remember, we're used to 'one cause / one disease' type thinking.

Secondly, there is no clue as to what might be the root cause. A lot of people diagnosed with ADHD have common results in some brain scans;

The investigators found important differences between people who have ADHD and those who don't. In people with ADHD, the brain areas that control attention used less glucose, indicating that they were less active. It appears from this research that a lower level of activity in some parts of the brain may cause inattention.

http://www.add.org/articles/causeadd.html

But interpreting this with meaning still proves difficult. All it shows, again, is that it is a scale variation in how the brain works. In addition, while some recent studies suggest certain novel food additives and allergens might play a role, there's nothing concrete as of yet. In short, we still don't know much at all.

It would be a bit like asking if there is an environmental or genetic cause for a kid to be extremely well focussed and attentive. Because that's not a 'problem' in the modern world, there's not many people asking the question from that angle. But for me it's in the same field.

Ritalin, as a stimulant, seems to increase the metabolism of key areas of the brain, allowing the brain to perhaps screen incoming information better. I have seen way too much of the 'excuse' culture with my own students, where the 'I have ADHD' line is an excuse to not control their own behaviour.

Nabiscothejerd (odd name...), you seem to have taken a rather responsible path with it. If we tried to repair (I'm not anti-ritalin, and although I don't see it as a solution I do see it as an aid) every underserible human trait with a drug, I think we'd be creating additional problems worse than those we started with.

Athon
 
What Athon said (natch) - and I'd suggest that you might want to take this up with your GP, with your mother in attendence? I'd also probably speak to your school counsellor if this is a concern to you and does your father have any say in this? You may also consider changing who is your GP (are there other doctors in the same practice you could request speaking to?) if you think you are not being heard?
 
Thom Hartmann has written several books describing his theory of ADD. He believes that people with ADD have the "hunting" gene, while everyone else has the "farming" gene. ADD charactaristics are beneficial in a hunting environment, so this was the dominant trait before civilization began. The "farmers" took over at the same time agriculture did, because the ADD traits were suddenly maladaptive to the new paradigm. "Farmers" now outnumber "Hunters" because farming supports a larger population than hunting. If it were the other way around, the non-ADD people would be considered abnormal.

I saw a more mechanistic theory described on PBS: ADD affects certain attenuating functions of the brain, so that mechanisms that are supposed to allow us to sit still and focus our attention are actually half asleep. This is why stimulants help hyperactive people to calm down.
 
If you look for the symptoms for ADD/ADHD, you will find them in every intelligent person that I have ever known especially when exposed to a boring teacher.

But as Athon says, it is on a scale. Some people have it to an extreme that probably makes ritalyn a good idea. Most people "with" ADHD would benefit a lot more from a having decent teacher. You sound like you are in this group.

I am not sure what advice to give you except to say that your ADHD may be "gift" in certain academic and intellectual pursuits.

CBL
 
athon said:
I have seen way too much of the 'excuse' culture with my own students, where the 'I have ADHD' line is an excuse to not control their own behaviour.
....not to mention "parents" and/or psychologists. Don't even get me started....

Anyway, nice post athon.
 
aggle-rithm said:
Thom Hartmann has written several books describing his theory of ADD. He believes that people with ADD have the "hunting" gene, while everyone else has the "farming" gene. ADD charactaristics are beneficial in a hunting environment,

They are? How precisely would a short attention span help people who hunt with primative weapons?
 
Ladewig said:
They are? How precisely would a short attention span help people who hunt with primative weapons?

If you define it that way, no it's not an advantage, but if think of as constantly scaning your enviroment. It is an advantage.

One mis-conception about ADD, it's not that you can't focus, it's that you can't control what you focus on.
 
IllegalArgument said:
If you define it that way, no it's not an advantage, but if think of as constantly scaning your enviroment. It is an advantage.

One mis-conception about ADD, it's not that you can't focus, it's that you can't control what you focus on.

O.K. Then is there any evidence that people today that have ADD make better hunters?
 
From the CDC:
Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

1) Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
2) Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.
3) Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
4) Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
5) Often has trouble organizing activities.
6) Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
7) Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
8) Is often easily distracted.
9) Is often forgetful in daily activities.
I could argue that I am guilty of all 9. I guess that means I have an extreme case. Funny, how I am still a successful software engineer.

I gue

CBL
 
Ladewig said:
O.K. Then is there any evidence that people today that have ADD make better hunters?

I worked in restaurant management for a few years, and that is one field where having ADD affords a definite advantage. There was so much going on at any given time that someone who focused on just one aspect was at a disadvantage. An ideal restaurant manager is someone whose attention can be easily drawn away from a potentially minor activity to a potentially important one. Of course, recognizing the difference is a whole other discipline that requires training, not temperament.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Just think, in hunting you will need to be distracted easily by slight movements or noises.

Yes, I see. Slight movements or noises will distract you from the task of searching for slight movements or noises.
 
aggle-rithm said:
Thom Hartmann has written several books describing his theory of ADD. He believes that people with ADD have the "hunting" gene, while everyone else has the "farming" gene. ADD charactaristics are beneficial in a hunting environment, so this was the dominant trait before civilization began. The "farmers" took over at the same time agriculture did, because the ADD traits were suddenly maladaptive to the new paradigm. "Farmers" now outnumber "Hunters" because farming supports a larger population than hunting. If it were the other way around, the non-ADD people would be considered abnormal.

I was having a hard time understanding that position, so I went back to the source (Thom Hartmann's website) and discovered that he is a radio talk show host whose book "was foremost a story told by a father (Thom Hartmann) who wanted to find an alternative to what he considered an emotionally destructive story told to his son about the way his son's brain functioned."

He makes the anology because primative hunting was dangerous enough that the it fulfilled many ADDers' common need for "stimulation-seeking/risk-taking." In constructing his argument he provides citations for some claims (e.g. youngsters with ADD do better when given positive reinforcement by an adult) and makes some claims that are rather unsupportable (e.g. "ince Hunters are predisposed to scan their environments, they are more apt to record and then later utilize background information. Conversely, farmers are more likely to think in terms of an object devoid of context").

While I am sympathetic towards his goals, I cannot put credence in this theory.
 
I usually have some form of toy or squishy object on my table at work, that prevents me from being too distracting to other students by wandering around.... I found that for one ADHD student, my practice of moving around the room was highly distracting for her. I don't know exactly how relevant that information is to this thread, but certainly help for ADHD people, I think, is more than just drug prescription but consideration by those who interact with them.
 
Kiless said:
I usually have some form of toy or squishy object on my table at work, that prevents me from being too distracting to other students by wandering around.... I found that for one ADHD student, my practice of moving around the room was highly distracting for her. I don't know exactly how relevant that information is to this thread, but certainly help for ADHD people, I think, is more than just drug prescription but consideration by those who interact with them.

Another brick in the wall?
 
Ladewig said:
Yes, I see. Slight movements or noises will distract you from the task of searching for slight movements or noises.
:p

I didn't have time to come up with anything better to "subscribe" to this thread with. Your comments are interesting though.

I think mine is still valid. To be sensitive to all slight movements and noises you wouldn't miss the ones that would be by the animals you seek (or in the case of being a warrior, the enemy you seek).

I hear ADD folks make good warriors too, for the variety of reasons already listed here.

I don't know exactly how relevant that information is to this thread, but certainly help for ADHD people, I think, is more than just drug prescription but consideration by those who interact with them.

Exatly, and this would go for autistic kids, kids with Tourettes, etc. If the majority were people with any of these "differences" we would see different work and school environments.
 
Athlon,

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I'm sure that as a teacher, you have a lot of experience with these issues. I will disagree with a few points, however, as recent published research have given us new insights into ADHD.

athon said:
A very simple question that, unfortunately, is after a very complicated answer.

Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) are two subsidaries of a disorder psychologists call 'Autism Spectrum Disorder' (ASD). It also includes Asperger's Syndrome.

Personally, I would have problems lumping ADHD together with Pervasive Developmental Disorders (or Autism Spectrum Disorders), such as Autism and Asperger's. I know that some professionals do, but I prefer to reserve the PDD designation to entities that have a prominent developmental delay component. Although patients with ADHD can have developmental delay, I find that most ADHD children have normal psychomotor development, despite their learning difficulties.

The problem is, we as a society have grown used to hearing the names of various disorders and thinking of them like they're diseases. 'I've got ADD' is something like saying 'I've got measles', or 'I've got a broken bone'. We're not used to understanding things like ADD or ASD as something that describes a trait, like 'I've got hair darker than other people's', or 'I carry more body fat'.

It's more useful to see these as traits rather than disorders. Afterall, a condition a person has is simply a variation of a trait that is not as efficient as other forms in a given environment. 'Efficiency' is often arguable, and the environment (with humans, at least) is easily variable itself. Hence the classroom is an environment a lot of ADHD kids find difficult to cope with.

I'll agree to a certain extent. It is true that normal people do have problems with attention, and it makes sense to view the ADHD phenomena as the extreme end of a normal trait. Recent studies, however, do suggest that there is a true pathological basis of ADHD, and currently, I would be against classifying ADHD a trait, rather than as a disease. Please see below for further elaboration.

Put them into an environment with multiple stimulations, and they can often excel. Asperger's kids are typically rather creative in certain environments.

That is true. However, as I stated before, ADHD is not really related to Asperger's. In fact, one of the requirements for diagnosing ADHD is that they have difficulties in multiple environments, not just at school. If a child were having attention problems related to only school, I would suspect either specific learning disorders or social problems before ADHD.

(SNIP).... This is why diagnosis is so tricky. There's no clear definition or marker, as it's a scale of a human variation. A bit like asking when blonde hair becomes brown. When does a lack of ability to remain focussed become ADD? When does the fidgeting become ADHD? It is such a complicated trait (dealing with human psychology and sociology) that pinning it down is hard.

I agree wholeheartedly. Diagnosing ADHD from normal behavior is very difficult. Furthermore, most psychologists, psychiatrists, and neurologists do not have enough time to properly diagnose it, as that would involve mutiple evaluations lasting hours at the least.

A lot of negativity has come out of this inability for psychologists to be able to agree on what it is exactly. Remember, we're used to 'one cause / one disease' type thinking.

Secondly, there is no clue as to what might be the root cause. A lot of people diagnosed with ADHD have common results in some brain scans;



http://www.add.org/articles/causeadd.html

But interpreting this with meaning still proves difficult. All it shows, again, is that it is a scale variation in how the brain works. In addition, while some recent studies suggest certain novel food additives and allergens might play a role, there's nothing concrete as of yet. In short, we still don't know much at all.

Recently, there have been multiple studies delineating what exactly is different in ADHD patients. Many studies, in particular one from Mostofsky et al (2002), found that the total cerebral volume is reduced in ADHD children (compared to control). In particular, the frontal lobes are reduced, which control behavior and self-regulation. Castellanos et al (2002) also found that the right hemisphere is smaller in ADHD children. The right hemisphere is involved in regulating attention, which is notably awry in ADHD.

This is why most neurological and psychiatric professionals have problems classifying ADHD as normal. There is simply too much evidence that there is a biological basis. Furthermore, there has been evidence that some of the pathophysiology behind ADHD is from deficient neurotransmitters. In particular, dopamine and norepinephrine have been implicated. Dopamine is involved in working memory, learning, and emotion. Norepinephrine is involved in maintaining attention and alertness.

As for food additive, allergens, etc... I personally have not seen a lot of evidence for this.

A final point regarding Ritalin and other psychostimulant medications: The theory behind the use of these meds is not for the stimulant or metabolic effect, per se. Ritalin et al increase the amount of dopamine and norepinephrine in the central nervous system. A new medication, in fact, (Strattera) has no stimulant effect, but increases dopamine and norepinephrine levels. It has shown early positive results after being placed on the market, and I have professionally had some good results with it.
 
athon said:
...Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) are two subsidaries of a disorder psychologists call 'Autism Spectrum Disorder' (ASD). It also includes Asperger's Syndrome...
Just to clarify, psychologists had nothing to do with these definitions from the DSM-IV, which was written by a panel from the American Psychiatric Association.
 
Jeff Corey said:
Just to clarify, psychologists had nothing to do with these definitions from the DSM-IV, which was written by a panel from the American Psychiatric Association.

Correction noted, and I confess it was a messy slip on my behalf. Stupid words! Writing would be so much easier without them.

:p

Psychiatry, psychology and psiologists...they're all pretty much the same thing.

Athon
 

Back
Top Bottom