Just pop the kid in the microwave or toss them out the window.
Yeah. Okay. It's time for me to walk away.
Abortion
- Thread starter chris epic
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Just pop the kid in the microwave or toss them out the window.
Yeah. Okay. It's time for me to walk away.
I am not suggesting that. However I do have to say that if the only choice was between a child say being continuous abused from birth until adulthood then I would rather that child be killed even as 6 month old baby.
If a society says "OK no abortion of unwanted children" then I think that society must then also say "OK we will provide for any child you do not want" so all such children born "unwanted" should immediately be state cared for (my preference would of course for such children to be adopted by loving parents).
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
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I think, if I might put two cents in, Luke T is advocating that it should be considered too late, out of deference to the developing human life waiting to be born. I think it's a valid point that there are few excuses for an unwanted pregnancy. I personally don't have a problem with a very early abortion, but for those that do, this is a sound argument for them to make.
Almost everyone agrees that at a certain point, the developing life has a right to live that trumps the mother's right to simply choose whether to carry the baby. Disagreement is occuring on where that line is to be drawn. Jokes aside, those that don't mind abortion generally have a problem with infanticide... and those that oppose it don't really think "every sperm is sacred".
Our of curiosity Luke T... do you have an opinion on "Morning-After" pills--they are not technically an abortion, in that they prevent implantation of a fertilized egg... a phenomenon that often occurs naturally.
Substitute "often" with "every day" among the sexually active population.
Yes, gnome, you have captured my sentiments exactly.
I am undecided on abortions prior to the second trimester.
I don't have any feelings either way about the morning after pill. It doesn't bother me, nor do I champion it.
meg
psychic reader
There is a phenomenon in psychology called the "fundamental attribution error" that I think is a common problem when talking about women who get abortions. Pretty much what it means is that people tend to explain their own behavior based on situational circumstances, however they explain the behavior of others by disposition. If I stub my toe, I say its because the furniture was moved, or my kid left a toy on the floor. If my husband stubs his toe, I say its because he's unobservant. He should watch where he's going.
So, if a woman gets an abortion, she might say that she can't afford a child, she's already got three kids, - she thought she was done, she was on the pill, she's concerned about her own health (being pregnant at her age), she's separated from the father and things aren't looking good and she doesn't think she could do it alone, she's worried about the health of the fetus (since she's been drinking pretty heavy due to the relationship problems and she was on the pill), and she can't afford to lose any time from work, or possibly lose her job, because she's got those 3 other kids depending on her.
The other guy sees she had an abortion and says, "Another "convenience" abortion. She just didn't want a kid."
Food for thought.
"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the anti-choice choose"
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
"Abortion Common Among All Women - Even those thought to oppose abortion"
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/prabort2.html
Meg
So, if a woman gets an abortion, she might say that she can't afford a child, she's already got three kids, - she thought she was done, she was on the pill, she's concerned about her own health (being pregnant at her age), she's separated from the father and things aren't looking good and she doesn't think she could do it alone, she's worried about the health of the fetus (since she's been drinking pretty heavy due to the relationship problems and she was on the pill), and she can't afford to lose any time from work, or possibly lose her job, because she's got those 3 other kids depending on her.
The other guy sees she had an abortion and says, "Another "convenience" abortion. She just didn't want a kid."
Food for thought.
"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion - When the anti-choice choose"
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
"Abortion Common Among All Women - Even those thought to oppose abortion"
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/prabort2.html
Meg
Meg, here's a dramatic case for your files. 
My wife had twins three and a half years ago. She had pre-eclampsia before they were born and had to be hospitalized. She nearly died while giving birth to them and was further hospitalized for weeks afterward. She came within a hair's breadth of dying.
While she was in the hospital, I took care of the twins. Exhausting work. No sleep.
Even with me arranging my work schedule to be home as much as possible, after four months we were both as tired as two human beings can get. And my wife was suffering from serious post-partum depression.
Then we found out she was pregnant again. We fell into the "no birth control" category since because of the complications of birthing the twins, she was not immediately able to return to the pill, and I simply cannot function with a condom.
Then I was laid off from my job. I was in the hi-tech field which had collapsed, and there were NO jobs to be found. And we lived in the state with the highest unemployment rate in the country.
We were living off the government, which doesn't provide anything close to what we needed. We were looking at losing our house, everything.
So we pretty much matched the top four or five or six reasons women get abortion over. In spades.
And many of our friends did not hesitate to suggest we get an abortion. To be honest, we did not receive the news of her pregnancy with any happiness. We were devastated. Shocked. Feeling really, really stupid. And tired. Oh my God, we were tired.
But the thought of abortion was out of the question.
I just put my nose to the grindstone. I went out and busted my ass and got a job in a totally different field, several months below the average unemployoment time, and way before anyone else in my company who was laid off got one.
Motivation.
That new baby is two and a half now. The twins are three and a half. We can't imagine what life would be like without any of them.
We're still pretty tired and we live paycheck to paycheck.
ETA: My wife has told me that even if she got pregnant from being raped, she wouldn't get an abortion.
Sometimes people forget some of the most avid pro-lifers are women.
My wife had twins three and a half years ago. She had pre-eclampsia before they were born and had to be hospitalized. She nearly died while giving birth to them and was further hospitalized for weeks afterward. She came within a hair's breadth of dying.
While she was in the hospital, I took care of the twins. Exhausting work. No sleep.
Even with me arranging my work schedule to be home as much as possible, after four months we were both as tired as two human beings can get. And my wife was suffering from serious post-partum depression.
Then we found out she was pregnant again. We fell into the "no birth control" category since because of the complications of birthing the twins, she was not immediately able to return to the pill, and I simply cannot function with a condom.
Then I was laid off from my job. I was in the hi-tech field which had collapsed, and there were NO jobs to be found. And we lived in the state with the highest unemployment rate in the country.
We were living off the government, which doesn't provide anything close to what we needed. We were looking at losing our house, everything.
So we pretty much matched the top four or five or six reasons women get abortion over. In spades.
And many of our friends did not hesitate to suggest we get an abortion. To be honest, we did not receive the news of her pregnancy with any happiness. We were devastated. Shocked. Feeling really, really stupid. And tired. Oh my God, we were tired.
But the thought of abortion was out of the question.
I just put my nose to the grindstone. I went out and busted my ass and got a job in a totally different field, several months below the average unemployoment time, and way before anyone else in my company who was laid off got one.
Motivation.
That new baby is two and a half now. The twins are three and a half. We can't imagine what life would be like without any of them.
We're still pretty tired and we live paycheck to paycheck.
ETA: My wife has told me that even if she got pregnant from being raped, she wouldn't get an abortion.
Sometimes people forget some of the most avid pro-lifers are women.
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bluess
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Ok, Luke, you and your wife made choices. Your choices.
If we were faced with my imminent death or the birth of a baby, Mr. Blue advised me from the outset of our twenty year marriage that he would pick me each time, and would lobby for an abortion. And he doesn't like the thought of abortion.
Different people, different reasons, different choices.
If we were faced with my imminent death or the birth of a baby, Mr. Blue advised me from the outset of our twenty year marriage that he would pick me each time, and would lobby for an abortion. And he doesn't like the thought of abortion.
Different people, different reasons, different choices.
I would also choose my wife over a baby. At the time of the twins' birth, no one knew she would almost die. It was during the second pregnancy that we were concerned about her health. We were also worried about our financial situation. We didn't want another child.
Damned inconvenient.
bluess
Illuminator
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Again, different people, different reasons, different choices.
I get the feeling you want a pat on the back for choosing to continue the pregnancy despite your circumstances. And also want to smack anyone else in the head for not making the same choice. Maybe you're stronger than that other person. Maybe your marriage is stronger than theirs. Maybe, maybe, but it should not be YOUR choice.
I get the feeling you want a pat on the back for choosing to continue the pregnancy despite your circumstances. And also want to smack anyone else in the head for not making the same choice. Maybe you're stronger than that other person. Maybe your marriage is stronger than theirs. Maybe, maybe, but it should not be YOUR choice.
meg
psychic reader
Good for you, Luke T, busting your ass and getting another job to take care of your family. Good for you. I mean it.
Unfortunately, while I have great sympathy for your plight, your sad story is still not of the caliber of many of those in that report.
For one, you were there, busting your ass to make it work.
The majority of women facing abortion are unmarried.
The majority of women facing abortion in 2004 made less than 200% of the poverty level. For a single person, that's 18k/year. A bit less than either of your jobs paid/pays, I'm guessing. That's about $8.50/hr.
Half of them were at or below the poverty line. That's $9300/year. $775/month.
I'm guessing you probably had insurance covering most of the cost for both pregancies. Would that be right?
While I'm sure you were emotionally, financially, and psychologically distraught at your circumstance, I would not say by any means that you therefore have some kind of perfect understanding about how people in much worse situations than you should think or behave.
Personally, I think that no matter what kind of experience you've had, you still have no right to tell others how they must deal with the situations in their own lives. It's their business whether to get an abortion or not. Not yours or mine.
Meg
Unfortunately, while I have great sympathy for your plight, your sad story is still not of the caliber of many of those in that report.
For one, you were there, busting your ass to make it work.
The majority of women facing abortion are unmarried.
The majority of women facing abortion in 2004 made less than 200% of the poverty level. For a single person, that's 18k/year. A bit less than either of your jobs paid/pays, I'm guessing. That's about $8.50/hr.
Half of them were at or below the poverty line. That's $9300/year. $775/month.
I'm guessing you probably had insurance covering most of the cost for both pregancies. Would that be right?
While I'm sure you were emotionally, financially, and psychologically distraught at your circumstance, I would not say by any means that you therefore have some kind of perfect understanding about how people in much worse situations than you should think or behave.
Personally, I think that no matter what kind of experience you've had, you still have no right to tell others how they must deal with the situations in their own lives. It's their business whether to get an abortion or not. Not yours or mine.
Meg