A thread about hypnosis

[Senex]

I preform stage hypnosis, (not lately, though, because of work and some other things). So I will tell you the keys to hypnosis:

A) The subject wants it work.
B) The subject is relaxed enough.
C) The hypnotist exudes confidence that it will work.

A,B and C is required for both, however, stage hypnotism is different from therapuetic.

It's nothing woo, it's nothing magical. We all achieve the same "state" (for lack of a better word) when reading a book, watching television, concentrating on a problem, etc.

I don't buy that reading a book and having dental work without novacane is the same.

In fact, when I perform, I tell my audience that it's exactly like going to the movies: you sit in a comfortable chair, with loud music and a big screen; you laugh at the funny scenes, you cry at the sad scenes, your heart races during the car chases and dramatic scenes, and during the whole time, you never notice the guy two rows in front of you eating his popcorn loudly.

That works for your performance -- but when women need reinforcement that they are submissive don't you need stronger imagery than a movie theater

 

[JFrankA]

A,B and C is required for both, however, stage hypnotism is different from therapuetic.

Quite honestly, hypnosis is hypnosis. Whether it's for a performance or "therapeutic", A, B & C apply. Period.

I don't buy that reading a book and having dental work without novacane is the same.

None the less, hypnosis that makes a person believe that they aren't feeling pain is exactly the same hypnosis that makes a person believe that they are getting drunk on water.

That works for your performance -- but when women need reinforcement that they are submissive don't you need stronger imagery than a movie theater

Maybe. Depends on the hypnotist and the subject, really. But truthfully hypnosis is hypnosis no matter what it is used for.



....I am not coming out and saying it, but you should understand what I am saying...

 

[Senex]

Quite honestly, hypnosis is hypnosis. Whether it's for a performance or "therapeutic", A, B & C apply. Period.

I believe that isn't clear/conventional wisdom.

None the less, hypnosis that makes a person believe that they aren't feeling pain is exactly the same hypnosis that makes a person believe that they are getting drunk on water.

I have to state I haven't experienced either -- but I believe it is possible these are two very different things.

Maybe. Depends on the hypnotist and the subject, really. But truthfully hypnosis is hypnosis no matter what it is used for.

Many people would see a difference between stage and therapuetic.

....I am not coming out and saying it, but you should understand what I am saying...

You are saying a hypnosis show down. Your hypnotic abilities against mine. Who can influence the most young woman at a bar in a short time.

I'm above that

 

[JFrankA]

I believe that isn't clear/conventional wisdom.

Exactly what conventional wisdom wants you to believe.....

I have to state I haven't experienced either -- but I believe it is possible these are two very different things.

There's that word again. It's the key to the difference.

Many people would see a difference between stage and therapuetic.

Of course they would. They'd have to in order for hypnosis to "work differently".

You are saying a hypnosis show down. Your hypnotic abilities against mine. Who can influence the most young woman at a bar in a short time.

I'm above that

Nooooooo I'm not saying that. Although it's something you may believe.....

 

[Senex]

JFrankA,

I have an expensive library of hypnotic books that include two of Ormand McGill's and others that are not aimed at perfoming.

Many people hope it has more potential than you give it credit for.

I'm pretty skeptical but I'd like to read what others here would wish to write.

 

[JFrankA]

JFrankA,

I have an expensive library of hypnotic books that include two of Ormand McGill's and others that are not aimed at perfoming.

Many people hope it has more potential than you give it credit for.

I'm pretty skeptical but I'd like to read what others here would wish to write.

I've been studying hypnosis a long time myself. I have plenty of books on it, too. I don't mean to be annoying or condescending, but honestly, there is no difference between stage hypnosis and therapy hypnosis except what is in the mind of the subject.

Hypnotherapists will tell you differently. But again, honestly, they have to.

 

[Senex]

I've been studying hypnosis a long time myself. I have plenty of books on it, too. I don't mean to be annoying or condescending, but honestly, there is no difference between stage hypnosis and therapy hypnosis except what is in the mind of the subject.

I have several problems with this sentence. First, isn't what is in the mind of the subject the only thing that is important (at least from a therapy perspective). Second, stage hypnotists only care about the entertainment factor. You can use dual reality, whisper instructions, use peer preasure -- anything is fair game for entertainment. A therapuetic hypnotist should only care about helping someone with a problem.

Hypnotherapists will tell you differently. But again, honestly, they have to.

I don't know if anyone really quit smoking through hypnosis but I bet the odds of success would be diminished if they needed to be on stage.

 

[JWideman]

The people using hypnosis believe it works much more than their subjects do. "I asked you questions under hypnosis and you answered them." "That was hypnosis? I thought we were having a conversation."

 

[JFrankA]

I have several problems with this sentence. First, isn't what is in the mind of the subject the only thing that is important (at least from a therapy perspective). Second, stage hypnotists only care about the entertainment factor. You can use dual reality, whisper instructions, use peer preasure -- anything is fair game for entertainment. A therapuetic hypnotist should only care about helping someone with a problem.

You are leaving out desire of the subject. That is the most important thing in hypnosis. I don't care if it's therapeutic or not, the list I gave you before is paramount for both kinds of hypnosis. As a performer, yeah, I get to play with what you listed above, but that is just window dressing.

Hypnosis is hypnosis. Self, stage, therapy, whatever. The trappings and end goal may be different but the basics are always the same.

I don't know if anyone really quit smoking through hypnosis but I bet the odds of success would be diminished if they needed to be on stage.

Quite a true statement. That's why Hypnotherapists use an office.

 

[Senex]

You are leaving out desire of the subject.

You have to be disingenuous. The desire of person who agrees to go on stage in a hypnosis show is to have plausable deniability for their exhibitionism. The person who goes to a hypnotherapist to overcome shyness is entirely different.

Hypnosis is hypnosis. Self, stage, therapy, whatever. The trappings and end goal may be different but the basics are always the same.

The trappings, end goal and basics all seem to differ to me. I'm not defending the benefits of hypnotherapy -- I'm just defending the intention.

 

[JFrankA]

You have to be disingenuous. The desire of person who agrees to go on stage in a hypnosis show is to have plausable deniability for their exhibitionism. The person who goes to a hypnotherapist to overcome shyness is entirely different.

The trappings, end goal and basics all seem to differ to me. I'm not defending the benefits of hypnotherapy -- I'm just defending the intention.

I understand. Please understand that I'm not trying to be a jerk, either. I'm trying to explain the best way I can. And I think we are arguing the same side. Let me give you an example of what I am trying to say:

Hypnosis is like being in a car to go to a destination. The destination maybe different, e.g. getting to work or going to an amusement park, but the method is the same no matter what kind of car is being driven: The subject is always the driver and the hypnotist is the navigator. The driver listens to the navigator's directions and, if the driver wants to, follows them. No matter what though, the driver can choose not to follow the instruction. I don't care who the navigator is, the driver always has the final choice.

The method is the same, the suggestion is the same and the subject, no matter how "deep" they may be, no matter whether it's a stage show or a therapy session, always has the final choice.

Of course what I do is nowhere near therapeutic in any way. I'm not saying what I do is. I'm no therapist. Even when people ask me to help them quit smoking or whatever, I refuse. I may have the skills to "induce a trance" but I do not possess the knowledge and degree of a psychologist. What I am saying is that no matter what the goal of hypnosis is, what is happening between hypnotist and subject is basically no different.

Now a professional psychologist might what clues a subject would give or what to do to help the subject in a therapeutic way, but when it comes to hypnosis, the basic methods of hypnosis are the same no matter the intent.

...I hope that made sense.

 

[Senex]

I understand. Please understand that I'm not trying to be a jerk, either.

Who said I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Your post is full of unwarranted assumptions.

Hypnosis is like being in a car to go to a destination. The destination maybe different, e.g. getting to work or going to an amusement park, but the method is the same no matter what kind of car is being driven: The subject is always the driver and the hypnotist is the navigator. The driver listens to the navigator's directions and, if the driver wants to, follows them. No matter what though, the driver can choose not to follow the instruction. I don't care who the navigator is, the driver always has the final choice.

Wow, you certainly broke some new ground. I'll have to reconsider my money back garantee "hypnosis breaks your addiction" group meetings I had planned.

Of course what I do is nowhere near therapeutic in any way. I'm not saying what I do is. I'm no therapist.

Please realize that and I'm still looking for that invitation up I-84 for a performance

I'm not mocking you. I am saying that despite you saying you have books about stage and therapeutic hypnosis you do favor one belief over the other.

I'm in the odd position of defending something I don't necessarily believe in but I suspect you are in the minority believing they are essentially the same.

 

[JFrankA]

Who said I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Your post is full of unwarranted assumptions.

I'm sorry, then. I'm not trying to upset you. I was just explaining what I think. If I'm missing something then please tell me.

Wow, you certainly broke some new ground. I'll have to reconsider my money back garantee "hypnosis breaks your addiction" group meetings I had planned.

??? I'm not saying I'm breaking new grounds. Maybe I am missing something here. I'm sorry.

Please realize that and I'm still looking for that invitation up I-84 for a performance

Believe me, I'd love to. But to be honest, I haven't done any shows recently, going back several months now, because of work and some other reasons.

I'm not mocking you. I am saying that despite you saying you have books about stage and therapeutic hypnosis you do favor one belief over the other.

I'm in the odd position of defending something I don't necessarily believe in but I suspect you are in the minority believing they are essentially the same.

I appreciate that. I understand. And again, I don't mean to upset you nor do I mean to sound like a jerk. And if I missed a point you are making please reiterate. I'm kind of dense sometimes.

And I still don't think you're being a jerk. I think I was upsetting you.

 

[Questioninggeller]

I was terribly interested in the limits of stage hypnotist's abilities from a young age. I believe I now know these limits (Kreskin isn't ruling the world is he?). Stage hypnotism is strictly about entertainment. Anything that may fall under "real" hypnotism during a performance is strictly coincidental.

There are some psychologists who believe that hypnotherapy is a valid method of therapy that may help many (hypnotherapy may help too many problems for me to itemize). Some people believe hypnosis can help people recollect details of a past event. Some people believe hypnosis can make anesthesia a thing of the past for minor surgery.

Some people make stronger arguments for the value of hypnosis than these examples (remembering past lives as an example). Hypnosis is a valid topic for the JREF. Placebo or something real -- what do you think?.

Hypnosis means several different things. I think your post is mainly referring to stage magic judging from your remark about "past lives". In that case, the major requirement needed is a cooperative person and there are several ways the performer makes sure the person from the crowd is cooperative. Mix that in with the pressure to comply and you have a compelling show.

Hypnosis in psychology means something different. It's like focusing on something else, which puts you in deep thought. The idea, as in therapy, is you can refocus pain by focusing on something that takes your mind off pain. Think about when you have watched TV and heard/saw what is being played, but were thinking about something else entirely and didn't know what was on the TV. Your mind was "hypnotized" in deep thought, focused on the internal processes and "closed" off to the external.

Thus, in one sense it is absolutely an illusion and in another it is real (as everyone has experienced a "form" of it).

More on this:
http://www.skepdic.com/hypnosis.html

 

[JohnG]

I'm sorry, then. I'm not trying to upset you. I was just explaining what I think. If I'm missing something then please tell me.



??? I'm not saying I'm breaking new grounds. Maybe I am missing something here. I'm sorry.



Believe me, I'd love to. But to be honest, I haven't done any shows recently, going back several months now, because of work and some other reasons.



I appreciate that. I understand. And again, I don't mean to upset you nor do I mean to sound like a jerk. And if I missed a point you are making please reiterate. I'm kind of dense sometimes.

And I still don't think you're being a jerk. I think I was upsetting you.

I understand. Please understand that I'm not trying to be a jerk, either. I'm trying to explain the best way I can. And I think we are arguing the sam

Who said I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Your post is full of unwarranted assumptions.

Wow, you certainly broke some new ground. I'll have to reconsider my money back garantee "hypnosis breaks your addiction" group meetings I had planned.


Please realize that and I'm still looking for that invitation up I-84 for a performance

I'm not mocking you. I am saying that despite you saying you have books about stage and therapeutic hypnosis you do favor one belief over the other.

I'm in the odd position of defending something I don't necessarily believe in but I suspect you are in the minority believing they are essentially the same.

I'm getting sleepy.... verrrrry sleepy...

 

[quarky]

Have a Pepsi! It will wake you up!

 

[AlexQuatermain]

Well, I don't know if I'm adding anything to the thread, I came here hoping for a definative answer.

When I was in college (High School for those from the US ) I had a friend who had been learning Hypnotism. He did a couple of "tests" to see if I was suceptible. I played along and he showed me a few things.

I felt in a deep state of relaxation, but nothing I couldn't achieve at home by myself without any knowledge of hypnosis.

Fast forward 2 years and we had a stage Hypnotist come to our University (College) for one of the student nights. The Hypnotist had asked for volunteers and I said to my friends "hold my camera and film, I'm gonna get up on stage and take my clothes off"

Once I got on stage there must have been about 20 others there and he said we were going to do some simple things to get started. He did the same "tests" my college friend had done on me under a theraputic pretense. I knew exactly what I needed to to to pass these tests and when I opened my eyes at the end of them, sure enough I was one of the few still up on stage. The others had been told to go and sit down.

From then on I was free to do exactly what I wanted. They told me whenever I heard certain music I would strip and from there it was a rush to get as many clothes off as possible before the music stopped (hey, I was having fun ;D) They obviously had a level of nudity that was acceptable, and I made it my goal to breach that without blowing my cover and being told to sit down.

However when it came my turn to do something I didn't want to do (I just didn't participate) he came over, gave me the "You are feeling sleepy, deeper, deeper" stuff and I sat that exercise out.

Afterwards my friends came up to me and said it was hilarious and asked if it was "real" I told them I was in no altered state, and when they didn't believe me showed them a section of video where I was giving them the thumbs up as proof that I was my normal self and in no altered state.

I will say that I had a lot of fun, and so did my friends, but I felt absolutely nothing strange or no compulsion to comply. I guess for a lot of people that get on stage the fun is in making people believe that they were under and doing stuff they wouldn't normally do. For me, as a skeptic, the fun was in letting people know that I felt nothing and that I was still willing to do that stuff.

Anyway, that's just what I think.

 

[lane99]

...Placebo or something real -- what do you think?.

Placebo. And a none too effective one for anything other than getting people to cluck like a chicken.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Hypnosis IS absolutely real and you all will do whatever I command you to do from here on out.

 

[Ladewig]

If you want hypnosis, look for Milton Erickson

I have read many of his books and they are filled with fascinating stories. I will say that the books helped me through a difficult period. On the other hand, the casual reader may come away with the idea that people can be put into deep trances with something as simple as an unusual handshake and common phrase. In reality, Erickson spent quite a bit of time preparing these subjects before they went into a trance.

Still, he must have been quite a person; if I were able to meet people from history, Erickson would be high on my list.