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A Question??

Amraann

New Blood
A
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
5
Hello!
I am hoping that you all can answer this for me .


Has there ever been a case where the police did claim psychic / medium had helped them solve a crime?
 
I believe the answer to that is 'no', or at least 'not that we've ever heard about', at least not in the UK or USA, and certainly not in recent years.

Forum member chillzero has collected a lot of statements from UK police departments regarding this issue, and the answer is always the negative.

However, there are many psychics who will claim that they did in fact solve the crime. I'm unsure what their defence is when shown the police statements to the contrary.

Chillzero recently wrote an article here: http://theskepticexpress.com/diane_lazarus.php which is worth reading if you are interested in this subject.

In the USA, a police officer was recently dismissed for consulting a psychic about a case, so presumably the police there also have a policy of not using them.
 
tkingdoll said:
I believe the answer to that is 'no', or at least 'not that we've ever heard about', at least not in the UK or USA, and certainly not in recent years.

Forum member chillzero has collected a lot of statements from UK police departments regarding this issue, and the answer is always the negative.

However, there are many psychics who will claim that they did in fact solve the crime. I'm unsure what their defence is when shown the police statements to the contrary.

Chillzero recently wrote an article here: http://theskepticexpress.com/diane_lazarus.php which is worth reading if you are interested in this subject.

In the USA, a police officer was recently dismissed for consulting a psychic about a case, so presumably the police there also have a policy of not using them.
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A number of U.S. television series have run episodes about psychics that allegedly helped the police solve cases. For example, see - http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05345/620430.stm
 
drkitten said:
As I recall, a number of U.S. television series have also run episodes about interstellar flight, intelligent aliens, and ships named "Enterprise."
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Wait a minute. You say that like it's not real! :jaw-dropp


Marc
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Bolding mine.

Any links to the relevent police forces verifying the claims of these TV shows?
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The article I linked to cites Lebanon County (Pennsylvania) Detective Paul Zechman and also quotes PA. District Attorney Deirdre Eshleman as saying "she was not sure she believes in psychics, but that she couldn't dispute the results."
 
Rodney said:
The article I linked to cites Lebanon County (Pennsylvania) Detective Paul Zechman and also quotes PA. District Attorney Deirdre Eshleman as saying "she was not sure she believes in psychics, but that she couldn't dispute the results."
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DA's aren't police, and it's clear from the final paragraph of the story that Ms. Eshleman's statement about any help is hearsay at best. Zechman is not cited at all. If the quotation actually existed in the first place (psychics are notorious for forging "testimonials" and presenting them to gullible reporters), then Ms. Eshleman is still not in a position to confirm that Ms. McGee actually helped the police at all.
 
drkitten said:
DA's aren't police, and it's clear from the final paragraph of the story that Ms. Eshleman's statement about any help is hearsay at best. Zechman is not cited at all. If the quotation actually existed in the first place (psychics are notorious for forging "testimonials" and presenting them to gullible reporters), then Ms. Eshleman is still not in a position to confirm that Ms. McGee actually helped the police at all.
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According to no less a source than -- http://www.theskepticsguide.org/skepticsguide/podcast-122105.html#issue2 -- "According to Eshleman, who prosecuted the case, Zechman didn't admit to her for several years that McGee had pointed him in the right direction. He told her only that 'an anonymous source' had helped."

"Zechman said this week it wasn't that he was embarrassed, but at the time, 'you didn't go around bragging about it.'"

"I think it's more accepted now," he said. "Police are more progressive-minded and willing to use things they may not completely understand."
 
Rodney said:
According to no less a source than -- http://www.theskepticsguide.org/skepticsguide/podcast-122105.html#issue2 -- "According to Eshleman, who prosecuted the case, Zechman didn't admit to her for several years that McGee had pointed him in the right direction. He told her only that 'an anonymous source' had helped."

"Zechman said this week it wasn't that he was embarrassed, but at the time, 'you didn't go around bragging about it.'"

"I think it's more accepted now," he said. "Police are more progressive-minded and willing to use things they may not completely understand."
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The whole section in question
The newspaper article says that McGee told Zechman that

…the killer was at a beach, probably Ocean City, Md., or Rehoboth Beach, Del. [He] called the police departments there and, sure enough, they found Robert Wise living in Arnold's stolen car at a shopping mall near Rehoboth.

Hold on. That’s just one thing that McGee, in a long interview with the detective, came up with. Did she also suggest several other places? We’re not told, but this guess – using the expected modifier “probably” – is singled out – because it was correct! And that’s a 25-mile stretch of local beach. Note that the culprit was found living in a stolen car – obviously reported as stolen – and we don’t know if the police set out to find that person as a result of being alerted by Zechman, or if Zechman merely had his man located because he was in the stolen vehicle. Bear in mind that police knew that Wise and the murder victim were acquainted, and Wise – locally known as a “beach bum” – was already strongly suspected as being the killer, but had simply not been located. This report presents matters as if Wise, right out of the blue, had been identified and located by means of McGee’s powers.

District Attorney Deirdre Eshleman now says that Zechman didn't admit to her for several years that McGee had offered him any guesses. He’d told her only that "an anonymous source" had helped him. Does it not appear that Zechman is now recalling, selectively, what McGee told him years before – those points that now checked out! – and is choosing to attribute powers to her? We know, from other accounts of how “police psychics” have been credited with “hits,” that often this is the case. Of course, if we had access to the tape recordings Zechman made of the interview, we would know. But we’ll never have access to those tapes, I’ll bet.

And, I’m struck by this sentence from the newspaper account:

[McGee] said she knew details of the case that surprised investigators, such as that Arnold had a collection of black rotary phones in his home.

We have to wonder, did McGee specifically say, “The killer has a collection of black rotary phones in his home,” or did she mention – among dozens of other guesses – that she “saw” a black telephone somehow connected with this matter? The morphing of a generalized statement into an explicit one, often takes place in the re-telling. Certainly, if McGee did deliver her guess as stated above, I would have to take this very seriously.
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Arkan_Wolfshade said:
The whole section in question
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The additional material that you quote is simply an attempt by a Randi supporter to put his own spin on the story. Remember that the original question was: "Has there ever been a case where the police did claim psychic/medium had helped them solve a crime?"
 
I saw a show just in the last few days. Had a psychic that admitted she didn't have special powers, but her ability to read people and awareness of her surroundings actually made her very valuable at crime scenes. She didn't have visions or anything, but came up with more leads based on what she saw.
 
Rodney said:
The additional material that you quote is simply an attempt by a Randi supporter to put his own spin on the story. Remember that the original question was: "Has there ever been a case where the police did claim psychic/medium had helped them solve a crime?"
Click to expand...

And you quoted the section out of context in a manner which attempted to suggest that http://www.theskepticsguide.org was in support of the story, and made no attempt to clarify it came from a debunking article.

What are you going to do, turn this into another almond thread?
 
The cops followed a trail of almonds to the killer, but were forced to dismiss all charges when it became obvious that the almonds were bitter almonds and not the yummy kind.

Somewhere, an affadavit was barking...
 
I'm sure that some others here listened the last time Michael Shermer (sp?) was on with George Noory. In one hour they had some psychic who kept claiming, loudly, that he found members of the SLA during the Patty Hearst kidnapping. I can't remember the details but he flat out claimed several times that a remote viewer, I think it was the guest but he could have been referring to a third party, led the FBI to a house where Hearst had been held. Supposedly there were no other clues. The guy just drove around Oakland CA. and wham! found the house with his psychic powers.

I wonder if Shermer ever reasearched that and got back to Noory? If so they sure didn't announce it on the show :) Anyhow I was wondering if anyone else remembers hearing this? If it were true it would be the most astounding example of psychic detection ever. I won't hold my breath though.
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
And you quoted the section out of context in a manner which attempted to suggest that http://www.theskepticsguide.org was in support of the story, and made no attempt to clarify it came from a debunking article.

What are you going to do, turn this into another almond thread?
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I was quoting the factual portion of the link -- not the spin portion. Anyone who is deluded enough to think that the "skeptics.guide.org" would believe in the use of psychics has got major problems.

Now, why don't you answer the question: Has there ever been a case where the police did claim psychic/medium had helped them solve a crime?
 
Rodney said:
I was quoting the factual portion of the link -- not the spin portion. Anyone who is deluded enough to think that the "skeptics.guide.org" would believe in the use of psychics has got major problems.

Now, why don't you answer the question: Has there ever been a case where the police did claim psychic/medium had helped them solve a crime?
Click to expand...

Ah, so you do want to turn this into another almond thread. Not playing. You want to prove it, you do the leg work.
 
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