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A question about the Devil

Atlas said:
Demons are able on occasion to completely take over an individual's personality. To invade their body. Jesus cast them out. Sometimes they were Legion in a single individual.
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Satan and his angels are powerful but not as powerful as God. Not even close.

Do you think this happens alot? Are demons able to control thoughts only if they invade and possess.
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I do not believe demons control thoughts, they just replace your soul as the driver of your body, so to speak. Who you are, your thoughts are only between you and God. I don't believe anyone has access to them. I believe Satan can ''read your thoughts'' so to speak, because he knows a lot about human behavior but he can't literally hear your voice inside your head.

Your own struggle that you mentioned... that had to do with your thoughts but they were being driven by the surges and urges of hormones - or are hormones and demons the same or similar entities. Or did the devil walk women into you sight and let your God given flesh drive you into his snare.
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The latter. We have God given desires and they are a good thing, but Satan tries to make you misuse them. They are for having children. Satan drove many women into my sight to tempt me to misuse my God given desires.

I'm asking the question sincerely. As I mentioned, you and I are not of the same mind on the reality of Satan but you seem like one of a very few that can answer these questions from an attitude of faithfulness in this forum.
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You may think I'm obsessed with Satan but it is not Satan I'm obsessed with, it's truth. The truth is Satan is God's sworn enemy there is a war for souls going on. I am on God's side and until he takes me up to Heaven, I will fight for God's army.
 
1inChrist said:
I do not believe demons control thoughts, they just replace your soul as the driver of your body, so to speak.
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Oh, that's totally true. See, there was this guy and a demon possessed him and his soul went bye-bye. Then he did the most horrific things you could think of. But then, he got his soul back and almost went insane from remorse over the stuff he'd done. Unfortunately, he lost his soul for a while again and did some more horrible things, but then happily, he got his soul back.

Nice story, huh?
 
The problem with stating what exactly the Devil can and cannot do is that there is very, very little Testament material which refers to him. In the Book of Job, the Devil is basically acting as an angel of God; he is unable to literally do anything withot the direct, face to face permission from God to act. Outside of Job, Satan hardly appears in the OT at all. He also appears in the New Testament, but only in the loosest of possible terms. He tempts Jesus in the desert, and he appears as a vaguely defined adversary ("Get thee behind me, Satan"), but his role is largely left undiscussed. So when you are looking at who Satan is, you are looking at a tradition which is largely outside of the Scripitural Cannon. A good, basic book on how this has led to the description of Satan endlessly shifting is this one;

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-8367418-5924613?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Based on a TV series too, if you can track that down. Bear in mind that 1inChrist, belonging to a Protestant-esque sect of a few people in a garage, isn't answering for modern Papal Doctrinaire definitions of Satan: You'd probably have to find the relevant Bulls to answer this question.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
Oh, that's totally true. See, there was this guy and a demon possessed him and his soul went bye-bye. Then he did the most horrific things you could think of. But then, he got his soul back and almost went insane from remorse over the stuff he'd done. Unfortunately, he lost his soul for a while again and did some more horrible things, but then happily, he got his soul back.

Nice story, huh?
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I'm glad it had a happy ending. It kinda brought a tear to my eye.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
Oh, that's totally true. See, there was this guy and a demon possessed him and his soul went bye-bye. Then he did the most horrific things you could think of. But then, he got his soul back and almost went insane from remorse over the stuff he'd done. Unfortunately, he lost his soul for a while again and did some more horrible things, but then happily, he got his soul back.

Nice story, huh?
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I dunno. Isn't that kind of an abrupt ending?
 
LostAngeles said:
I dunno. Isn't that kind of an abrupt ending?
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I didn't much like the "real" ending. You see, he gets his soul back, but then goes to work for an evil law firm, but then after a while he realizes "Hey! These guys are evil!". So he tries to get rid of them, but they sent all these other demons after him and his crew and his story ends before you find out if the good guys won or not. Kinda sad. And open ended. I don't like that.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
I didn't much like the "real" ending. You see, he gets his soul back, but then goes to work for an evil law firm, but then after a while he realizes "Hey! These guys are evil!". So he tries to get rid of them, but they sent all these other demons after him and his crew and his story ends before you find out if the good guys won or not. Kinda sad. And open ended. I don't like that.
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Was it just me, or was he getting kinda...chunky...towards the end?

All his victims must have been candy-addicted hyperglycemics.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Was it just me, or was he getting kinda...chunky...towards the end?

All his victims must have been candy-addicted hyperglycemics.
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Yeah, the heartbreak of manboobs.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Was it just me, or was he getting kinda...chunky...towards the end?

All his victims must have been candy-addicted hyperglycemics.
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Actually, it was the otter. Otter is full of fat and sugar and hyperglytrypolyunsaturatedbadstuff.

He's lucky his heart was a walnut otherwise there would have been some real trouble down the line.
 
Protestant vs. Catholic

P.S.A. said:
Protestant-esque sect (snip of personal remark), isn't answering for modern Papal Doctrinaire definitions of Satan: You'd probably have to find the relevant Bulls to answer this question.
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Yeap, this is one of the big differences between the Protestant and Catholic doctrine. I was looking at various literary sources over lunch and found that the Catholic Satan really doesn't do much on our world. He has his hands full managing Hell, in some literary worlds Satan is the ruler of Hell, but also trapped there. I've always thought Dante's image of Lucifer is one of the most pitiable one's. Dante puts the three headed Lucifer head-first into the lowest plane of Hell, with his legs sticking up into Purgatory. Dante then describes him as continually crying because he will never be able to bask in the purity and beauty of God's presence.

In the Catholic doctrine, Mankind is fallible enough without Satan's help to ensure that Hell is always overflowing. (Does it creep anyone else out to imagine the fires of Hell being infinitely hot, but emitting no light because light is cheery. Ugh!)

It's in northern Germany where the tales of Satan actually coming to earth and looking for souls to corrupt develop. It's very likely these tales were only a rehash of earlier tales of elves, gnomes, dwarves, etc. The idea that the devil is actively tempting men was grafted onto Protestent religions fairly early on.

I haven't looked at the Papal Bulls yet.

Cheers,

-Flex
 
I'm still having trouble with the concept of Satan in a world with an omnipotent adversary.

If a 3 year old declares themselves my mortal enemy, it's not exactly going to keep my awake at nights clenched with terror. And an omipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being is much more comparatively powerful than a non-omnipotent (etc) being.

If Satan is so weak, why doesn't God simply dispose of him? I see a few possible answers:

a) He can't, in which case he's not omnipotent.
b) He won't, in which case he's not omnibenevolent (ie he must want us to suffer, or at least not care about it).
c) He doesn't know how, in which case he's not omniscient. Indeed, if the Devil comes into existence at all, it is either because God wanted him to or because he's not omniscient.

In case a, it is possible that Satan can beat God. In case b, I see no particular reason to worship a deity who is able but not willing to prevent suffering, regardless of whether or not he actually exists. And in case c, you're looking at a being that doesn't necessarily understand its own power - again, not something to be worshipped (placated, possibly).

Of course, case d is "Neither of them exist." And I know which way Occam's Razor is pointing.
 
SixSixSix said:

Of course, case d is "Neither of them exist." And I know which way Occam's Razor is pointing.
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William! Put that thing down - you'll have someone's eye out!

sorry, I just wanted to see if anything happens at 250 posts...

--Terry.
 
Diogenes said:
I'ts free will I tell you! Free will!

Good has no meaning without evil...
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So God was being kind when he created the devil? Otherwise we could never understand His goodness?

Man, you devil worshippers will say just about anything. :D
 
God is omnipotent. He could therefore have given us free will without including evil, if he had so chosen to do so.

This is "the problem of evil". Either god is not omnipotent, or he is not omnibenevolent. The fact that evil exists precludes the combination of the two.

And really, "good has no meaning without evil"? So if I look up "good" in the dictionary, I'll see "The opposite of evil" and vice versa?

Cliches are rarely the basis of a good argument.
 
Gee, everytime I sit down with Satan, it seems like he's able to read my thoughts. Either that, or he counts cards because, dude, you cannot bluff him.
 
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