A Continent Bleeds

[Skeptical Greg]

You are right in many ways. However:

In year 2000, 59.5% of California's population were whites. 60% of the AIDS cases until now were whites - a nice correlation.

6.7% of the population were blacks, while 17% of the AIDS cases were blacks - an over-representation.

32.4% of the population were latinos, while 20% of the AIDS cases were latinos.

In other words, whites have exactly as much AIDS as we should expect, latinos have less and blacks more. Maybe blacks just have more sex?

Perhaps it says something about the difference in an immune factor among the various populations. I trust someone is looking into that..

 

[a_unique_person]

I have jj on ignore, but I see his reply from the previous post. I didnt say that other races dont have the same problems. I was talking about the evidence that it occurs _at higher rates_.

That's funny, cause I have Hamegk on ignore. JJ makes more sense than Hammy ever could.

 

[corplinx]

That's funny, cause I have Hamegk on ignore. JJ makes more sense than Hammy ever could.

I've never had cause to put Hammy on ignore. Of course, I ignored the whole "Hammy and slavery" thread. Mostly I notice he chimes in with a quip or short observation in most threads.

 

[Tony]

"negroes"

Watch out guys, the PC thought police is on the prowl.

 

[fishbob]

Tony is right:

Africa is a hellhole.

And not just Sub-Saharan Africa, but the whole enchilada. Can that continent ever be pulled or pushed into the modern world? I suspect that an African country would have to take the lead, the lead country would need lots of international help, and the process would take at least a century.

 

[Jon_in_london]

"negroes"

Whats wrong with calling someone (of African descent) a negro?

I dont think that there is any genetic reason why Africans and persons of African descent (thats negros to most sane people), are typically worse off than others. I do think there are cultural reasons.

These cultural reasons are in part the fault of non-African societies, that slavery and imperialism have had a strongly negative impact on Africa and African descendend persons is undeniable and should be acknowledged.

However, I do belive that there is a cultural problem with Africans and persons of African descent in general. ie: the 'I was enslaved/colonised/oppressed etc... which gives me an excuse to be anti-social/anti-nationstate and generally sit around and demand freebies as reperations while simulatenously blaming my sorry situation entirely on colonialist/neo-colonialist westerner scum rather than working to improve my lot'.

Yes I know this is a generalisation. It doesnt apply to everyone. But I lived in Africa for 25 years and what I have said above is- by my decades of observation- a very rough and crude analysis of why Africa is up ◊◊◊◊-creek.

 

[a_unique_person]

What can I say, I post a thread

http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18081&highlight=foreign

that is about the future of foreign aid, and how it can work, and what we have learned, and it gets 0 posts.

Here we have a thread about how pathetic Africa is, and it is getting posts.

My own take on Africa is that if you look at the background to 90% of the reasons for misery in Africa, you find a civil war. And the civil war is due to country borders that were drawn by colonial powers with no recognition at all of the existing tribal structures.

Given that much of the wars are about the tribal versus country borders, if the continent of Africa was re-organised on tribal lines, much of the reasons for war and misery for be gone, and standard development could continue.

As for this article, the author is a racist prick.

 

[Tony]

As for this article, the author is a racist prick.

How?

 

[a_unique_person]

How?

For the reasons I have just stated. He lays the blame directly at their feet, but conveniently ignores the overwhelming influence of colonialism over the past century or so. The societies lived there for thousands of years, which is an undeniable sign of a self sustaining society, yet in a short period of time, they have become self-abusing.

Pick the factor that turned everything upside down.

 

[aerocontrols]

I posted this article and the follow-on article some time ago.

I'm all for it.

So are some Africans:

The factories of Zimbabwe were deserted yesterday, its crumbling streets empty and even the government's Mercedes Benz suppliers closed as an estimated 90 per cent of the country's workers went on a general strike. The protest, called by the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Unions and backed by the opposition Movement for Democratic Change, was triggered by a 300 per cent fuel price rise ordered by Robert Mugabe's government. Among the businesses paralysed by the strike was Zimbabwe's most profitable vehicle company. Its workshops were locked up, 10 new Mercedes Benz E240 saloons inside them awaiting delivery to Mr Mugabe's cabinet. A further 22 are due to arrive later this week. The total cost of the order has been estimated to be equivalent to two weeks' fuel supply for the entire country. On the eve of the strike workers at the firm had been seething. "If only George Bush would come here and Saddam us," said one. "But he won't and so we will have to strike, and be arrested and beaten. We have no choice. The ministers break the cars that we pay for and get new ones and we pay for those too. We have no fuel, no food, no medicines at the hospitals, and Mugabe doesn't care."

MattJ

 

[aerocontrols]

For the reasons I have just stated. He lays the blame directly at their feet, but conveniently ignores the overwhelming influence of colonialism over the past century or so. The societies lived there for thousands of years, which is an undeniable sign of a self sustaining society, yet in a short period of time, they have become self-abusing.

Pick the factor that turned everything upside down.

From the second article, which Tony apparently didn't know about:

I never meant to suggest that the United States Army should "simply" occupy every hamlet and village and impose order on an unwilling and hostile populace. Order is not civilization. The whole point is to enlighten, not just dominate. That means building schools and churches and markets (with enforceable contracts!). The U.S. military would be necessary for carving out a zone of sanity and safety where such things could be done. It might also be necessary to erase a lot of the pernicious boundaries created by the colonialists, borders that were designed to pit tribe against tribe.

MattJ

 

[a_unique_person]

I posted this article and the follow-on article some time ago.

I'm all for it.

So are some Africans:



MattJ

Yet if you look at the Phillipines, for example, they kept going with their strikes and civil disobedience, and people power alone was enough to overthrow the government. Fortunately, they also had some friends inside the military who also wanted democracy to win over totalitarianism.

 

[aerocontrols]

Yet if you look at the Phillipines, for example, they kept going with their strikes and civil disobedience, and people power alone was enough to overthrow the government. Fortunately, they also had some friends inside the military who also wanted democracy to win over totalitarianism.

Except that:

And the civil war is due to country borders that were drawn by colonial powers with no recognition at all of the existing tribal structures.

This is a problem that the Phillipinos never had. You also list an advantage that they had, that most African countries do not have.

Your recommendation:

if the continent of Africa was re-organised on tribal lines, much of the reasons for war and misery for be gone, and standard development could continue.

Seems difficult to implement to me, without doing something rather along the lines of Goldberg's suggestion. What is your plan for a Phillipine-like rebuilding of Africa whereby the borders are shifted without outside intervention?

MattJ

 

[Jon_in_london]

That is about the future of foreign aid, and how it can work, and what we have learned, and it gets 0 posts.

Foreign AID is useless as it simply encourages the hand-out mentality.

My own take on Africa is that if you look at the background to 90% of the reasons for misery in Africa, you find a civil war. And the civil war is due to country borders that were drawn by colonial powers with no recognition at all of the existing tribal structures.

Never been any civil war in Malawi but its one of the poorest countrys on the globe. Zambia is also in a bad way but there has never been a war in which Zambia was involved. Never been civil war in Botswana but they aint so hot either and they are a single tribe in a nation-state. Lesotho is also a single tribe nation-state but yet a few years back armed intervention was required to prop-up the elected government. While Zimbabwe had some war 23 years ago, its current state of shithood has nothing to do with the war. Wars DO make things worse but they are more a symptom rather than the underlying sickness.

Given that much of the wars are about the tribal versus country borders, if the continent of Africa was re-organised on tribal lines, much of the reasons for war and misery for be gone, and standard development could continue.

Which would mean chopping Africa up into a patchwork of principlaties few of which would be viable nation-states.
And afterwards- they can all fight each other in proper wars rather than just civil wars? Just like they did before the evil white-man came along?

As for this article, the author is a racist prick.

RACE CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sundog]

I have jj on ignore, but I see his reply from the previous post. I didnt say that other races dont have the same problems. I was talking about the evidence that it occurs _at higher rates_.

You have jj on ignore? Your loss, my friend.

Same to you AUP for ignoring hammegk.

 

[Jon_in_london]

By the way, anyone wondering why Africa is in the state it is in should look at whats been happening with Winnie Mandela these past 10 years or so.

Winnie (estranged wife of Nelson) was convicted of kidnapping a young black boy. A crime that normally carries a hefty prison sentence (25 years or so). How much prison time do you think Winnie got? that right folks! Absolutely none at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She was implicated in the murder of the same black youth but nothing more was said.

Recently she was convicted on more counts of fraud and theft than you can shake a stick at. Maximum sentence 15 years. Winnie gets 8 months!!!!! Now if you or me did the same, do you think WE would get off so lightly, or do you think the fact that she is a high-profile ANC MP has something to do with the judges sentence??!? Do you think this is good and healthy for a nation?

Also COSAS, an ANC affiliated students union of which Winnie is the Pres has threatened to call a stike and even burn down the prison whe is being held in!!!!! Why? because the court that convicted her was RASCIST!!!!!



So the real reason that Africa is in its current state of shithood has less to do with colonialism and very much to do with corruption, nepotism, megalomania and African politicians stealing and embezzling thier nations precious resources for their own personal agrandisment.

 

[Ian Osborne]

do you think WE would get off so lightly, or do you think the fact that [Winnie Mandela] is a high-profile ANC MP has something to do with the judges sentence??!? Do you think this is good and healthy for a nation?

Seconded, but don't think this is a uniquely African problem. What about William Calley? Richard Nixon was granted immunity from prosecution by Gerald Ford, and closer to home, Jeremy Thorpe had his murder trial posponed until after a general election and then was let off the hook by the prosecution.

Influence sucks - everywhere!

 

[Jon_in_london]

Seconded, but don't think this is a uniquely African problem. What about William Calley? Richard Nixon was granted immunity from prosecution by Gerald Ford, and closer to home, Jeremy Thorpe had his murder trial posponed until after a general election and then was let off the hook by the prosecution.

Influence sucks - everywhere!

I absolutely agree that its not just an African problem. The level of corruption in the UK is sickening- more so because its so blatant and nobody makes any noise about it.

But then, the US&UK arent facing starvation etc... are they?

 

[Mike B.]

This is a sad subject. I don't have the answers. I have worked with Africans who have said things like, "People in the West have no idea how good you have it."

Probably true...

I doubt simply redrawing borders would work. How many countries would you have instead of 53?

200?

2000?

 

[Q-Source]

Go to the majority negro cities of america and you will find aids, people killing each other, all that jazz. Is there a common factor?

White oppresion

This thread is disgusting.

"American Greatness." oh yeah

Enjoy it!