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A bible in every Texas classroom

oh yeah, and i was going to point out that gideon bibles probably have a lot to do with the best selling thing. it might as well be a pamphlet instead of a book as far as how often its handed out for free vs how often its actually read.
 
DOC said:
...it only makes sense to study it -- as literature...
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I could agree with this, but...

DOC said:
...as philosophy...
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Yeah, absolutism, bigotry, irrationality, and "faith" are concepts we should be passing down to our kids.

DOC said:
...as history....
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You mean the "history" that universe was created in six, 24-hour, days and that humanity was created with mud and divine breath and lived in a garden with a talking snake? The "history" that says that there was a world wide flood and only one family and a few samples of every species of animal life on earth survived on a single boat? The "history" that the Egyptians had Hebrew slaves who were freed by a guy named "Moses" who led them on a 40 year long hike in the desert? How about the "history" about a guy who runs claiming to be the "son of god" healing the sick, bringing dead people back to life, then being executed and coming back to life himself only to be bodily taken into the sky?

Of course, none of this "history" has any shred of evidence of outside of the Bible to support it.

DOC said:
...or simply because it is the best selling book of all time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books
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Yes... and to quote Penn Jillette on the very topic: "Of course, all time bestseller number two is 'Quotations From Chairmen Mao Zedong'...so you can decide how much stock you want to put in bestsellers."

He also said in that very episode of BS, "Popular sure doesn't equal right."
 
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Katana said:
:)
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Well the Torah is part of the Bible and the Koran, has almost nothing to do with American history, although that is changing as of late. Also they say Muslims marvel at the poetry and the language use in the Koran but it loses a lot in it translation and is very difficult reading.
 
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DOC said:
Well the Torah is part of the Bible and the Koran, has almost nothing to do with American history, although that is changing as of late. Also they say Muslims marvel at the poetry and the language use in the Koran but it loses a lot in it translation and is very difficult reading.
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Well if we are going to get rid of things that lose a lot in translation good bye old testament.
 
ReligionStudent said:
Well if we are going to get rid of things that lose a lot in translation good bye old testament.
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You ought to get a modern day translation like "The Living Bible" or the "Good News Bible" or a website like "The Blue letter Bible".

But remember the Christian Church did not come out of the New Testament, The New Testament came out of the Christian Church. Not a single sentence of the New Testament was written until about 30 years after the Church was formed.
 
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richorman said:
One last aside. The idiot who is proposing this bill earlier this year sent a letter to each and every other member of the Texas legislature saying that the theory of evolution was a Jewish plot. I am not kidding.
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I agree that a Bible through History and Lit class should be availible as an elective. That's not what Chisum wants, he wants basically a Sunday School class and from richorman link and the links on the thread I'm linking to, an end run around the Biology classroom so Creationism can be advocated.

This bill should not pass. And suggest taking richorman's TFN links in the OP to see exactly why it shouldn't.
 
Katana said:
So are they holding elective classes on the Quran and the Torah, too?
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One assumes not, but that is, in my humble opinion, the right way to fight this bill. If it passes, immediately find some way to attempt to introduce "The Koran as Literature" or "Scripture of many traditions as literature" into the school. When refused, go to court. Be careful of what you wish for, fundies, because you may receive it.

P.S. over in another thread in the politics section, there was a discussion of clubs centered on homosexual rights. The court ruling that declared that there was a right for such clubs to meet, against school admistration attempts to suppress them, was based on a 1984 law passed with the aim of ensuring that religious clubs had a right to meet. Free speech works, if allowed to do so.
 
DOC
But remember the Christian Church did not come out of the New Testament, The New Testament came out of the Christian Church. Not a single sentence of the New Testament was written until about 30 years after the Church was formed.
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We all realize you are a liar. There really is no need to keep proving it. Reference the Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity thread for proof.
 
DOC said:
You ought to get a modern day translation like "The Living Bible" or the "Good News Bible" or a website like "The Blue letter Bible".

But remember the Christian Church did not come out of the New Testament, The New Testament came out of the Christian Church. Not a single sentence of the New Testament was written until about 30 years after the Church was formed.
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Those are not very good translations, and Im sorry but any translation from the origional language leaves a ton to be desired. Its impossible not to, I include those I do myself. Though ones such as the Living Bible and the Good News Bible really go ahead and beat the translation into unrecognizable forms.


And yes the NT was not written right along with Jesus, but certainly before the church formed. Remember the holy spirit was not articulated as a doctrine until the time of Basil of Caesarea
 
Katana said:
So are they holding elective classes on the Quran and the Torah, too?
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That's exactly the question I asked when I found out that a group from a Presbyterian church is trying to get a Bible as literature elective class taught in the high school district Whyatica attends.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1648523.php

The Bible is perhaps the most important piece of literature in Western culture, said Benjamin J. Hubbard, professor emeritus of comparative religion at Cal State Fullerton.

"We're in a society where people don't really know about other religions or even their own," Hubbard said. "We form opinions on religions, like Islam, based on very sketchy information."

Teaching a class solely on the Bible as literature can be dangerous, he added.

"I'm concerned someone with an agenda would use the courses to proselytize," Hubbard said.
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I wonder if these people would allow an atheist to teach the class?
 
Lisa Simpson said:
That's exactly the question I asked when I found out that a group from a Presbyterian church is trying to get a Bible as literature elective class taught in the high school district Whyatica attends.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1648523.php



I wonder if these people would allow an atheist to teach the class?
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I would hope that they would. There are a growing number of atheists/agnositics in religious studies right now. In fact, a long time scholar who is very respected recently was quoted as being agnostic. He said somthing to the effect of religious belief being an impedament for studying ancient Israel.

BTW who is Whyatica? cuz if that is a name its pretty cool (though I would love to know what it means)
 
DOC said:
You ought to get a modern day translation like "The Living Bible" or the "Good News Bible" or a website like "The Blue letter Bible".

But remember the Christian Church did not come out of the New Testament, The New Testament came out of the Christian Church. Not a single sentence of the New Testament was written until about 30 years after the Church was formed.
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you pretty much completely ignored me. It seems that 'thriller' by micheal jackson is the best selling album of all time. Does that mean music students should be forced to study it?
 
ReligionStudent said:
I would hope that they would. There are a growing number of atheists/agnositics in religious studies right now.
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yes, they’re called the Church of England.

(I know, it’s an old joke, and not at all accurate, but hey it’s my church by law, so I’m allowed to mock. ;) )
 
DOC said:
The Bible is the best selling book of all time -- it only makes sense to study it -- as literature, as philosophy, as history, or simply because it is the best selling book of all time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books
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Rrrrrriiiigggghhhhhhtttttt!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :jaw-dropp


Mediocre literature, mediocre philosophy, pathetic history and that best selling thing only comes up because of tight church control over what books were printed - and how many and church purchases (as well as gideons, etc) who purchase billions to give out as propaganda,
 
fuelair said:
Rrrrrriiiigggghhhhhhtttttt!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :jaw-dropp


Mediocre literature, mediocre philosophy, pathetic history and that best selling thing only comes up because of tight church control over what books were printed - and how many and church purchases (as well as gideons, etc) who purchase billions to give out as propaganda,
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Some of the literature in the Bible is fantastic, and the publication of the Authorised Version (“King James version”) was instrumental in the process of turning English into a fully fledged langue, rather than just a loose collection of related dialects. The problem is in teaching it as fact- whether implicitly or explicitly-, rather than critiquing it as you would with any other piece of literature.
The comparison to Shakespeare made earlier in eth thread is very apt. Except that Shakespeare was much more consistently well written that the Bible, and nobody tires to teach Macbeth as historical fact (even though some of the characters where historical figures).
 
ReligionStudent said:
Those are not very good translations, and Im sorry but any translation from the origional language leaves a ton to be desired. Its impossible not to, I include those I do myself. Though ones such as the Living Bible and the Good News Bible really go ahead and beat the translation into unrecognizable forms.


And yes the NT was not written right along with Jesus, but certainly before the church formed. Remember the holy spirit was not articulated as a doctrine until the time of Basil of Caesarea
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That's an oversimplification. Numerous sects had texts and doctrines and they interacted and altered each other's texts and doctrines. Eventually one sect one out and they destroyed as many of the non-conforming texts as possible and bound the conforming texts into the New Testament. You can't separate the forming of the church from the forming of the texts.

I agree with you 100% about modern translations. The slangy stuff doesn't bother me nearly as much as the deliberate mistranslation of doctrines they don't like and the picking and choosing from the Septuagint, the Dead Sea Scrolls, ancient translations into Coptic, and qere and ketiv.
 
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