• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

21 grams

Zanna

New Blood
Z
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
3
This might sound like a silly question, but I figured that if anyone can answer it, one of you folks could. Simply put, is the so-called study about people losing 21 grams after death an urban myth? I have tried googling it and haven't come up with anything useful. If it was an actual study, does anyone have any links (or post) to any useful information about the methodology used for the study?

Thanks a bunch!

zanna :)
 
Hi Zanna -

There was a longish thread about this here a while ago, you might be able to mine it for information and other links.

I think the short answer was that there's no reason to believe that the body loses weight at the point of death, but more importantly it's realistically impossible to do an experiment to find out one way or the other.
 
Actually, you could test for it. It just wouldn't be pretty. Here's my idea. Get a big, totally sealed container. We don't want *anything* to be able to get in or out. Then put someone in it. If you're kind, use someone who is about to die anyhow. Toss it on a scale, and wait. When he dies, if the mass on the scale changes, you might have something.

I can't think of many people who would willing lock themselves inside a hermetically sealed container for the last few minutes of their life, though I can think of a few people I might want to vounteer for the task...
 
Just because no one else said so, the real problem here is that a body does lose a lot of weight when it dies. A lot more than 21g. IT's all things that are accounted for: excrement, sweat, continued hair loss, plain old evaporation, etc. So it's hard to tell whether there's 21g that go missing someplace.

What I can tell you is anyone who's claimed to measure it alreday is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.
 
If there were such a thing as a soul, why would it have weight at all? No reason I can think of.

And if the soul is in the body, shouldn't you be able to tell where that soul is, especially if it has measurable weight, given our extensive knowledge of anatomy? I've never read it, but I'll bet Grey's Anatomy doesn't mention a soul. ;)
 
Imagine this scenerio::: "Excuse me but we believe you are about to die so we'd like to put you on a very accurate scale to see if you loose any weight at the moment of your death, sorry if this is an inconvenience. I hope your family at bedside won't mind. We need to wrap you in a sealed bag so as to prevent any loss of water or any other material so as to isolate your soul in our measurements. Thank you and have a nice death"::::

It is ridiculous.
 
Imagine this scenerio::: "Excuse me but we believe you are about to die so we'd like to put you on a very accurate scale to see if you loose any weight at the moment of your death, sorry if this is an inconvenience. I hope your family at bedside won't mind. We need to wrap you in a sealed bag so as to prevent any loss of water or any other material so as to isolate your soul in our measurements. Thank you and have a nice death"::::

It is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Au contraire, Pierre. I expect there is of no shortage of terminally-ill, pain-racked Christians that would be willing to submit to such a proceedure. To be part of an experiment that PROVES the existence of an immortal soul - that is the stuff that the truly faithful would line up for.

As for actually losing 3/4 of an ounce, I don't remember feeling lighter when I sold my sold to the devil, but I suspect that my soul was a bit on the gaunt side before I signed my name in blood.
 
Ladewig said:

As for actually losing 3/4 of an ounce, I don't remember feeling lighter when I sold my sold to the devil, but I suspect that my soul was a bit on the gaunt side before I signed my name in blood.
Click to expand...

And you wouldn't feel lighter, unless he's already taken it. :D
 
I suppose if a soul existed as an entity it would have a rest mass. Otherwise it would be hard to stop it departing at speed.
(Around 300,000km/sec)

If it existed as a process , it might be safely massless.
It would therefore not contribute to any mass decrease on cessation.

But it would cease.

The same would apply to other processes , such as wit, strength of character and the like.
 
Soapy Sam said:
I suppose if a soul existed as an entity it would have a rest mass. Otherwise it would be hard to stop it departing at speed.
(Around 300,000km/sec)
Click to expand...

No, a soul is not the same type of entity as those in the so-called physical world.
 
I agree with Ian.

Besides if souls really did have a physical weight, why would they all have the same weight? Surely Mother Theresa's soul would weigh more than Donald Trump's.
 
Ladewig said:
I agree with Ian.

Besides if souls really did have a physical weight, why would they all have the same weight? Surely Mother Theresa's soul would weigh more than Donald Trump's.
Click to expand...
Why? What would determine the soul's weight? The "goodness" of the person (I assume that's what you're alluding to, comparing Mother Theresa and Trump)? Or the size of the person (surely Trump is physically bigger than Mother Theresa was)? If the soul exists, and has weight, where in the body is it? Or is it simply is? And if it's the "goodness" of the person, who's determining the amount of "goodness"? God? Some other deity or authority?
 
Nigel said:

Why? What would determine the soul's weight? The "goodness" of the person (I assume that's what you're alluding to, comparing Mother Theresa and Trump)? Or the size of the person (surely Trump is physically bigger than Mother Theresa was)? If the soul exists, and has weight, where in the body is it? Or is it simply is? And if it's the "goodness" of the person, who's determining the amount of "goodness"? God? Some other deity or authority?
Click to expand...

They don't have a weight. They are not physical. Neither of course do they have a location.
 
Interesting Ian said:


They don't have a weight. They are not physical. Neither of course do they have a location.
Click to expand...
Then you have evidence they exist, right?

And please read my previous post a little closer. I was responding to Ladewig's post by asking that if souls exist, then what determines the weight. I wasn't taking the position they do or don't, even though I personally don't believe they do.
 
Nigel said:

Then you have evidence they exist, right?
Click to expand...


I'm sick of addressing this issue regarding evidence. Reasons are more important.

And please read my previous post a little closer. I was responding to Ladewig's post by asking that if souls exist, then what determines the weight. I wasn't taking the position they do or don't, even though I personally don't believe they do.
Click to expand...

Ladewig was agreeing with me, namely that if souls should exist, they would not have any weight.
 
Interesting Ian said:


I'm sick of addressing this issue regarding evidence. Reasons are more important.



Ladewig was agreeing with me, namely that if souls should exist, they would not have any weight.
Click to expand...
I read that Ladewig was agreeing with you. I never said s/he didn't. Again, that's not the point. I was asking if they have weight (and Ladewig brought up the issue of weight) then what determines that weight? And if they don't have weight, then what are they?
Wrong, because I define them to do so.
Click to expand...
And what is this? Proof by blatant assertion?? Something is true simply because you say it is? My, what power you have.
I'm sick of addressing this issue regarding evidence. Reasons are more important.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're sick of the issue of evidence, because I've already seen you can't back up what you say.
Ian, I'm *this* close to ignoring you as I have oaf and Winston.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom