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1st computer discovered?

antihippy

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Aug 29, 2005
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Scientists probe 2,000-year-old Greek [possibly] computer

I thought this was an interesting discovery. As noted in the article it would be a very interesting find if it turns out to be true. It's already been noted that the ancient Greeks (iirc) had discovered, and then subsequently forgotten, a version of calculus as well.

Just goes to show that some ancient civlisations were pretty advanced for their time.
 
But did they have Dr Scholls sandals? Or Cheez-Wiz? No, they did not!
 
This is extremely old news. Wasn't the mechanism investigated by Derek De Solla Price back in the early to late 70's?
 
Scientists probe 2,000-year-old Greek [possibly] computer

I thought this was an interesting discovery. As noted in the article it would be a very interesting find if it turns out to be true. It's already been noted that the ancient Greeks (iirc) had discovered, and then subsequently forgotten, a version of calculus as well.

Just goes to show that some ancient civlisations were pretty advanced for their time.

Not really. They didn't have McDonald's.
 
The Antikythera mechanism is one of those things that gets "discovered" every few years or so. The good news is that technology gets better with every discovery, and they manage to glean a little more information from the mechanism. This time, they seem to have found inscriptions, which is a good thing. At least they didn't find a "Made in India" sticker on the back.

Everyone appears so surprised when a mechanism like this is "found," like any ancient culture would be unable or unlikely to have produced it. Gearing has been around for a long time, and because it can do proportional ratios, lends itself for mathematical operations. And gears can be produced quite accurately with nothing more than hand tools, because it's the relationship between the number of teeth on each gear and pinion and not whether everything is truly round or perfect that make gears suited for analog computers.

I follow the progress of the Antikythera mechanism stuidies because one day I'd like to make a functional replica. It would go well with the mariner's astrolabe, quadrant, surveyor's astrolabe, and cross staff I've made just for fun.


Beanbag
 
I follow the progress of the Antikythera mechanism stuidies because one day I'd like to make a functional replica. It would go well with the mariner's astrolabe, quadrant, surveyor's astrolabe, and cross staff I've made just for fun.


Beanbag

Photos, please. And are you selling copies?
 
Photos, please. And are you selling copies?

Seven-inch mariner's astrolabe, .25" (6mm) thick brass. Eight-inch engineer's astrolabe, .125" (3mm) thick brass, in custom-fitted red oak case. (I know: both need a good polishing. I'm out of Brasso right now)

These were made as part of my personal research into medieval and Rennaisance scientific instruments. No plans to go into production, these were one-off, hand made pieces, made just like the originals. The engineer's astrolabe has a graphical dial calculator for determining solar declination on the back side, all hand-engraved. The mariner's astrolabe makes a good weapon when hung on a rope or chain.

Beanbag
 

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Worst-case scenario.

"We'll display the Antikythera device next to our Kythera dev-"
KABOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!
 
"Advanced for their time" is a misleading thing to say. I don't mean to call you out on it, but you have the unfortunate pleasure of being used as an example. :)

There's a misperception that as mankind moves toward the future, we are necessarily improving in general, as if something in our nature guarantees progress. We consider ourselves more advanced than the generations that have come before us by virtue of having had more time to learn and grow.

The problem is that that assumption relies on the idea that we have always been constantly working towards the same goals and that those goals will result in our advancement, however you may define advancement.

Even if the assumption that our progress as a species is directly proportional and correlated to the time we have existed is correct (whew, pause for breath), we've still encountered serious setbacks on the road to that progress. Not to abuse already overworked historical tropes, but think of the European "Dark Ages" and the burning of the Library of Alexandria. We know that tremendous amounts of literature, scientific knowledge, and recorded history were forever lost in cataclysms of war, plague, and migration. Who can say for sure whether ancient peoples were more or less advanced than we consider ourselves? The Romans didn't even have a concept of zero or knowledge of calculus, and they considered the principles of the steam engine as good for toys and nothing else, yet they were the dominant force in engineering in the Western world and achieved feats of architecture that subsequent cultures weren't able to duplicate for centuries.

What I'm getting at is that to say a culture was "advanced for its time" betrays a mode of thought that assumes our current notion of advancement and our current priorities of knowledge and the application of knowledge are correct. That's a dangerous road to go down, because it can lead to an arrogance of perspective that limits our ability to appreciate the accomplishments of those who have come before us and to see the real value in the past.
 
Seven-inch mariner's astrolabe, .25" (6mm) thick brass. Eight-inch engineer's astrolabe, .125" (3mm) thick brass, in custom-fitted red oak case. (I know: both need a good polishing. I'm out of Brasso right now)

These were made as part of my personal research into medieval and Rennaisance scientific instruments. No plans to go into production, these were one-off, hand made pieces, made just like the originals. The engineer's astrolabe has a graphical dial calculator for determining solar declination on the back side, all hand-engraved. The mariner's astrolabe makes a good weapon when hung on a rope or chain.

Beanbag
Cool, I'm impressed. Did you see longitude? It is high up on my list of favorites.
 
Reminds me of the Curta Calculator.

As I am "New Blood" I cannot post a right and proper URL, but if you copy the following into a new browser window ~ and remove the spaces ~ you'll see what I'm getting at.
vcalc.net / images2 / Master21G-860x560.jpg​
Perhaps The Antikythera mechanism is a component of something larger and more complex.
 
The Curta is a marvel, wish I could afford one. (I collect old calculating gear.) Curt Herzstark invented it while a prisoner in Buchenwald concentration camp. When WWII ended he had Contina AG of Luxembourg manufacture them, and they kept making them until 1970. I know of nothing else similar. Magnificent piece of design and engineering.
 
At what point does something stop being a fancy abacus and start being a computer?
 
Cool, I'm impressed. Did you see longitude? It is high up on my list of favorites.

The movie was OK. The book was better, and the "illustrated" version of the book was even better.

Harrison was a study in raw mechanical aptitude and understanding, innate ability, and a stubbornness and level of perfection that drove him to success. The interesting point is that with the exception of the remontoirre to even out the power delivered by the mainspring and bimetallic temperature compensation, none of Harrison's developments were adopted in the first truly practical marine chronometers. Harrison engineered his way around problems by adding complexity, whereas Earnshaw and Arnold perfected their chronometer designs by eliminating complexity. Harrison showed the concept of a marine chronometer would work, but his design was too complex and required individual hand-fitting of parts to ever be practical for mass production. He was the right man at the right time.

Beanbag
 
It is amazing that the problem was not solved earlier. The problem with Longitude was costing many lives and ships and Islands. Instead of a lone genius put a well run group onto it. Give it the resources it needed. If it cost the price of 10 ships to find the solution 10 years ealier then it would have been worth it. And that would have been a lot of money.
 
At what point does something stop being a fancy abacus and start being a computer?
I know of no hard and fast dividing line. My personal answer would be when you add more direct input and readout of numbers than counting beads. So to my way of thinking, a pascaline is a calculator (or low-power computer, if you like).

Dunno what to call Napier's bones. "Aid to calculation" might be a good designation.
 

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