10 Commandments barred from courthouses

[Cleon]

SCOTUS has ruled against courtroom displays of the 10 commandments.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a narrowly drawn ruling, the Supreme Court struck down Ten Commandments displays in courthouses Monday, holding that two exhibits in Kentucky crossed the line between separation of church and state because they promoted a religious message.

The 5-4 decision, first of two seeking to mediate the conflict over religion's place in public life, took a case-by-case approach to this vexing issue. In the decision, the court declined to prohibit all displays in court buildings or on government property.

The justices left themselves legal wiggle room on this issue, however, saying that some displays -- like their own courtroom frieze -- would be permissible if they're portrayed neutrally in order to honor the nation's legal history.

Roy Moore rumored to be Dubya's pick to fill Rehnquist's seat.

 

[Bikewer]

Interesting. NPR's legal correspondant reported on these cases a couple of months ago. The thought at the time was that one case was rather weak, wheras the other was a pretty clear violation of C/S separation.

 

[Kodiak]

When, oh when, will we see narrow constructionism applied across the board...

 

[shanek]

When, oh when, will we see narrow constructionism applied across the board...

When we get either a) a President and a Senate dedicated to constructionism who can appoint them, or b) enough people in Congress, the Presidency, state legislatures, police, etc. dedicated to the Constitution and willing to follow their oaths of office even as the Supreme Court refuses to do so.

Lotsa luck.

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

I got the same email alerts from CNN. Unfortunatly, it is only a semi-win. The SCOTUS allowed the 10 commandment in state buildings.

Charlie (name the first 4 commandments) Monoxide

 

[Skeptic]

I got the same email alerts from CNN. Unfortunatly, it is only a semi-win. The SCOTUS allowed the 10 commandment in state buildings.

Charlie (name the first 4 commandments) Monoxide

Well, the would, wouldn't they--or they'd have to send a wrecking crew out and erase these insults to the Constitution from the their own building:

 

[rdtjr]

Well, the would, wouldn't they--or they'd have to send a wrecking crew out and erase this travesty to the Constitution from the front of their own building:

Ummmm, that's not "The Ten Commandments" that's a depiction of Moses as a law giver holding the the stone tablets that would have the ten commandments on them (notice in the first instance they are blank). And is part of an overall homage to the historical/mythology origins and traditions of laws.

The Scotus decision was a pretty good one IMHO. They didn't say that having the ten commandments was a problem if part of a display similar to the SCOTUS one. But that it was obvious in these two instances that the original purposes for putting those displays in these two court houses was to promote a religion. They left themselves a lot of leeway for future decisions.

 

[Skeptic]

Ummmm, that's not "The Ten Commandments" that's a depiction of Moses as a law giver holding the the stone tablets that would have the ten commandments on them (notice in the first instance they are blank).

Not the ones inside the building.

 

[rdtjr]

Not the ones inside the building.

And again:

"And is part of an overall homage to the historical/mythology origins and traditions of laws.

The Scotus decision was a pretty good one IMHO. They didn't say that having the ten commandments was a problem if part of a display similar to the SCOTUS one. But that it was obvious in these two instances that the original purposes for putting those displays in these two court houses was to promote a religion. They left themselves a lot of leeway for future decisions."




The SCOTUS displays are not religious in nature. They include many religious figures (including non-judeo/christian ones), but all are related to law and that is the purpose of their representation. Hmmm, do I spy Hammurabi there next to Moses in the second picture?

 

[Tony]

Well, the would, wouldn't they--or they'd have to send a wrecking crew out and erase these insults to the Constitution from the their own building:

Wrong.

That's what happens when you use human events as a source, internet chain letter material used as gospel truth.

 

[merphie]

I can't believe they decided in the broader respect that in Texas religion is such a foundation of our country and it was ignored for 40 years so it should be allowed.

I think the Blind lady of justice is a better representative of our country than religion.

 

[Tony]

Not the ones inside the building.

Wrong again.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

The friezes which adorn the north and south walls of the courtroom in the Supreme Court building (also designed by Adolph Weinman) depict a procession of 18 great lawgivers: Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian (south wall); Justinian, Mohammed, Charlemagne, King John, Louis IX, Hugo Grotius, Sir William Blackstone, John Marshall and Napoleon (north wall):

 

[Art Vandelay]

rdtjr

Ummmm, that's not "The Ten Commandments" that's a depiction of Moses as a law giver holding the the stone tablets that would have the ten commandments on them (notice in the first instance they are blank).

Actually, the list commonly known as "The Ten Commandments" isn't the list that was put on the tablets. The real Ten Commandments are:

1. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
2. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.
3. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
4. None shall appear before me empty.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
8. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Odd how Christians are fighting so hard to display the "Ten Commandments" when they don't even know what the Ten Commandments are.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

When we get either a) a President and a Senate dedicated to constructionism who can appoint them, or b) enough people in Congress, the Presidency, state legislatures, police, etc. dedicated to the Constitution and willing to follow their oaths of office even as the Supreme Court refuses to do so.

Lotsa luck.

The Libertarians will do it!!!***



***But first they have to work on getting 1% of the vote.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Do you really not understand how much of a jackass you are?

As per my announcement: this comment is totally inappropriate for this section of the forum. If you continue to make such comments in this section of the forum further sanctions may be applied which may even include suspension. This is your final warning.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Do you really not understand how much of a jackass you are?

As per my announcement: this comment is totally inappropriate for this section of the forum. If you continue to make such comments in this section of the forum further sanctions may be applied which may even include suspension. This is your final warning.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

Calling Darat a jackass doesn't seem like it was a very good idea!

 

[RandFan]

rdtjr
Actually, the list commonly known as "The Ten Commandments" isn't the list that was put on the tablets. The real Ten Commandments are:

1. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
2. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.
3. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
4. None shall appear before me empty.
5. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
8. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Odd how Christians are fighting so hard to display the "Ten Commandments" when they don't even know what the Ten Commandments are.

The Commandments commonly known as the "10 Commandments" appear first in Exodus 20. These were suposedly written on the tablets that Moses smashed. The commandments that you list is the second set. There is however is some confusion because Exodus 34 says: "The LORD said to Moses, "Cut two stone tablets like the former, that I may write on them the commandments which were on the former tablets that you broke."

For a great side by side comparison of the Protestant, Catholic and Hebrew versions see Positive Atheism

 

[LW]

Actually, the list commonly known as "The Ten Commandments" isn't the list that was put on the tablets.

This is statement not accurate. Each of the four principal authors of Pentateuch ("J", "E", "P", and "D") had a different version of the story on Ten Commandments and what happened to the tablets.

The account of "J" is Exod. 34:14-28, and that is the list that you quoted.

The account of "P" is Exod. 20:1-17. This is the traditional list.

The account of "E" is Exod 32:15-19. He doesn't tell what was written in the tablets, and there was a good reason for this omission that I'll mention later.

The account of "D" is Deut. 5:6-22. This is very close to the traditional list.

The accounts of "J" and "D" both explicitly mention that those were the commandments that were put on the tablets as a part of immediate narrative. The account of "P" is more implicit and he also deferred it later, to Exod. 31:18.

Note that the accounts of "E" and "P" give a picture of the religious conflict between Israel and Judah during the authors' times: "P" who was a priest in Jerusalem claims that the tablets that were stored in the Temple of Jerusalem were "written by God's own hand". However, "E" who was one of the priests of Northern Israel claims that Moses broke the original tablets. So, according to him the tablets in the Temple were fakes and nobody knew what read in the originals. The part in Exod. 34. where God makes the new tablets that are then given to Moses was inserted by "R", the redactor who put together the pre-existing texts into the final form that we now have.

Source: R. E. Friedman, Who Wrote the Bible?.

 

[Ipecac]

From here: Commandments Decision Saddens Bible Belt

Christian conservatives who believe the Founding Fathers saw the Ten Commandments as the basis for American law have been fighting what they see as a "hostility" to faith in the U.S. courts.

Wah, wah, wah. Learn some history and maybe you won't feel that way. I feel little sympathy for those who are willfully ignorant of American history and then get upset when events don't comport with their ignorance.

"They take prayer out of schools, they take the Ten Commandments down and they wonder what's wrong with our society. It's just wrong," said Joe Kidd, who was working at a fireworks stand in Whitley City.

Of course we've heard this before, but SHEESH. As if this would solve any problems whatsoever.

 

[Tony]

Wah, wah, wah. Learn some history and maybe you won't feel that way. I feel little sympathy for those who are willfully ignorant of American history and then get upset when events don't comport with their ignorance.

Ignorance is a biblically mandated virtue, can you really blame them?