10^23

[Mojo]

So what you're saying is that it will actually make the acid more acidic? By the time it had been diluted 30 times it should have been pH, say, -1,000,000?

Homoeopaths believe that "potentising" the remedies makes them more powerful, yes. But possibly not more acidic. Maybe just a more powerful acid of the same pH.

Remember, this is homoeopathy, so it doesn't have to make sense.

 

[arthwollipot]

After ingestion, all those homeopathic remedies will eventually be excreted. They will make their way into the oceans and the extreme dilution combined with constant agitation by the waves should increase the potency enormously. We are all being treated with them, without our consent. Something should be done about it.

Nope. Succussing is a very specific process - it's not just any old agitation that does it.

When I did my demonstration, for example, it was ten shakes up and down, then ten bangs with the leather-bound bible, then ten shakes left and right, then ten bangs with the bible, then ten shakes back and forward, then ten bangs with the bible.

The ocean doesn't do that. Then again, that rigmarole didn't actually work either, because the 30C homeopathic HCl didn't dissolve the shell grit.

Oh, and I actually mentioned the anti-heartburn effect as I was doing the dilutions. I'm happy to report that since drinking the 30C bottle, I haven't had any heartburn.

 

[Gr8wight]

Oh, and I actually mentioned the anti-heartburn effect as I was doing the dilutions. I'm happy to report that since drinking the 30C bottle, I haven't had any heartburn.

"Doctor, will I be able to play the piano after this operation?"

 

[leon_heller]

I thought that the commercial suppliers of homeopathic remedies shook the liquid mechanically. Surely they don't have someone shaking the stuff in their hand and banging it with a bible.

 

[Mojo]

I thought that the commercial suppliers of homeopathic remedies shook the liquid mechanically. Surely they don't have someone shaking the stuff in their hand and banging it with a bible.

Somewhere (I can't remember exactly where) there is a succussing machine that was built based on detailed measurements of the arm of a human succussor, so that it could exactly mimic his action.

As for someone banging it with a Bible, see the modern face of scientific homeopathy.

 

[Mojo]

Nope. Succussing is a very specific process - it's not just any old agitation that does it.

Unless, of course, the homoeopaths think some study not involving succussion in the preparation of the solutions can be used to support homoeopathy. For a recent example see the paper Luc Montagnier published in early 2009, which used vortexing rather than succussion, and which homoeopaths claim proves that ultradilute homoeopathic remedies can have effects.

 

[leon_heller]

Somewhere (I can't remember exactly where) there is a succussing machine that was built based on detailed measurements of the arm of a human succussor, so that it could exactly mimic his action.

As for someone banging it with a Bible, see the modern face of scientific homeopathy.

I'd forgotten about that series. I watched it at the time and it was very good.

Anyway, extreme dilution in the oceans should result in an vast increase in potency, even without the approved form of succussion.

People could save money by drinking their urine after taking their dose of water, especially if they jump and down a few times. A further level of dilution will be introduced as well as more succussion. Drinking one's own urine is thought to be beneficial in its own right, so they get two treatments in one.

 

[arthwollipot]

No, succussion is an essential part of potentisation, without which nothing happens.

Or so I understand it to be.

 

[Mojo]

No, succussion is an essential part of potentisation, without which nothing happens.

Or so I understand it to be.

The point I was making is that, yes, it is claimed to be an essential part of the procedure for making homeopathic remedies, except when it suits homoeopaths to imply that it dosn't really matter. It's the good old moving goalposts.

For another example, see the references to Charles Darwin conducting experiments on Drosera using "homeopathic doses" here. There is no indication in any of Darwin's descriptions of the experiments that the solutions used were succussed (or even prepared by serial dilution).

 

[arthwollipot]

If it wasn't serially diluted, and wasn't succussed, how was it in any way homeopathic? Surely some other adjective would have been more appropriate.

 

[Mojo]

If it wasn't serially diluted, and wasn't succussed, how was it in any way homeopathic? Surely some other adjective would have been more appropriate.

Of course. But that doesn't stop homoeopaths claiming that Darwin was testing homoeopathy. Google Darwin, homeopathy and drosera and you'll find dozens of homoeopaths claiming that these were homoeopathic dilutions.

On the other hand, if a test of a non-succussed preparation failed to show any effect, they would be quick to object that the succussion is essential.

 

[Kuko 4000]

Here's our video (abt 5 mins, w/ English subtitles) from the 10:23 event in Helsinki: