• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Acupuncture for animals?

Elizabeth I

Philosopher
Elizabeth I
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
9,931
Location
Defending the Alamo
I have a dog about 17 years old that has severe arthritis. Because of other health issues, she is not a candidate for steroid therapy, and the vet has recommended acupuncture. (Perhaps not coincidentally, he performs the procedure at a cost of $50 per treatment, it will take four treatments for me to be able to tell if it's working, and the full course is seven to eight treatments.)

I do understand that there is absolutely no scientific evidence for opening the flow of good chi, or blocking the flow of bad chi, or whatever the mechanism of acupuncture is supposed to be, or even for the existence of "chi" itself.

My question is, is there a "mechanical," as opposed to a metaphysical or supernatural, process by which acupuncture could work? I'd like to help my dog if I can - she's doing well for her age, all things considered - but dropping $200 or more on an ineffective treatment won't help her, and won't even make me feel better for "trying."

Thanks in advance for your comments/thoughts.
 
The only way acupuncture can "work" is by the placebo effect. Therefore, unless you are able to convince your dog that the ancient Chinese, who had a phobia about dissection, know more about anatomy than we do now, it won't help in the slightest. Save your money and don't torture the poor animal. Oh, and get another vet. This one's worthless.
 
Sherman Bay said:
The only way acupuncture can "work" is by the placebo effect. Therefore, unless you are able to convince your dog that the ancient Chinese, who had a phobia about dissection, know more about anatomy than we do now, it won't help in the slightest.
Click to expand...

or convince yourself this is the case, and get the twin benefits of the dog being happier because you're happier and you thinking the treatment is working because you want it to work.
 
Elizabeth I said:
My question is, is there a "mechanical," as opposed to a metaphysical or supernatural, process by which acupuncture could work? I'd like to help my dog if I can - she's doing well for her age, all things considered - but dropping $200 or more on an ineffective treatment won't help her, and won't even make me feel better for "trying."

Thanks in advance for your comments/thoughts.
Click to expand...


Here's some scientific reading for you on the subject. Hope it helps:

Animal acupuncture
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/animal-acupuncture/

Veterinary acupuncture is a triumph of style over substance. Fortunately, most veterinarians haven’t succumbed to offering needless needles to animals, in spite of the fact that there are apparently some people eager for such “options.”
Click to expand...


Is there a placebo effect for animals?
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/is-there-a-placebo-effect-for-animals/

Good veterinary care should include a healthy dose of understanding and compassion, and veterinarians should be interested in proven effective care. However, there’s no evidence whatsoever that animals can benefit from, or even experience, placebo effects.
Click to expand...


Acupuncture: The facts
http://drspinello.com/altmed/acuvet/acuvet_files/frame.htm
A detailed and comprehensive 139-slide PowerPoint presentation by the late Robert Imrie, DVM. It debunks many of the myths about acupuncture, including the idea that it has been around for thousands of years.
(Click on the numbers on the left-hand sidebar of the link to view the slides.)
 
Sherman Bay said:
Oh, and get another vet. This one's worthless.
Click to expand...

This should have been the first thing to pop into your mind when your vet says that acupuncture is the only way to help.

My vet (because of proximity) has been criticized a lot by his diagnoses and recommendations, and I would go somewhere else if he says he cannot do anything to help using conventional means.
 
Blue Wode said:
Here's some scientific reading for you on the subject. Hope it helps...
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. I have bookmarked that science page.

Pretty much what I thought - I was just thrown off a little by a veterinarian's recommending acupuncture, and, since it didn't seem likely that my dog could experience placebo effect, I wondered if there were any other possible mechanism.

To everybody else - the vet works for a group practice, so I will just make sure to see another of the docs when I go.

Thanks, all.
 
You've already gotten all the right answers but I'd still suggest to run as fast as you can away from that vet and seek another.
 
Update

Just wanted to say that when I got home from work today, my dog was waiting for me at the door and got up and walked outside by herself. I'm hopeful that rest and pain meds was all she needed.
 
Elizabeth I said:
(Perhaps not coincidentally, he performs the procedure at a cost of $50 per treatment, it will take four treatments for me to be able to tell if it's working, and the full course is seven to eight treatments.)
Click to expand...


Your vet is, in effect, offering to cure your dog's arthritis for $400 - that's the bottom line of his claim.

There are over 100 different types of arthritis in humans, I can only image there are a simlar number of variations for dogs and your vet is claiming to be able to cure any of them by sticking needles in the dog. For $400 dollars.

There is no cure for human arthritis, only limited treatment options, I can only imagine its the same for dogs and your vet is claiming to be able to cure it in 8 treatments (for $400).
 
Elizabeth I said:
Thank you very much. I have bookmarked that science page.

Pretty much what I thought - I was just thrown off a little by a veterinarian's recommending acupuncture, and, since it didn't seem likely that my dog could experience placebo effect, I wondered if there were any other possible mechanism.

To everybody else - the vet works for a group practice, so I will just make sure to see another of the docs when I go.

Thanks, all.
Click to expand...

You really should try to make a point to talk to one of the other vets and let them know that one of their collegues is peddling fake cures and that's why you didn't want to see him again.
 
Elizabeth I, you don't say what your dog's other health issues are, so this may not be helpful in your case... but aquatherapy really worked wonders for my arthritic German Shepherd. It helped him build really strong muscles around his weak joints, and we were able to dispense with painkillers. Swimming is such good, gentle exercise for an older dog. My boy loved his swims so much, he used to quiver all over and squeak with excitement when we drove up to the pool!

Some info about the benefits here
 
Fengirl said:
Elizabeth I, you don't say what your dog's other health issues are, so this may not be helpful in your case... but aquatherapy really worked wonders for my arthritic German Shepherd. It helped him build really strong muscles around his weak joints, and we were able to dispense with painkillers. Swimming is such good, gentle exercise for an older dog. My boy loved his swims so much, he used to quiver all over and squeak with excitement when we drove up to the pool!

Some info about the benefits here
Click to expand...

Thank you. She has kidney and liver issues, both controlled by medication, but a long course of steroids could have really messed her up.

Where did you take your dog for swimming? Not sure any of our public pools would go for it. :)
 
Elizabeth I said:
Where did you take your dog for swimming? Not sure any of our public pools would go for it. :)
Click to expand...

Fortunately, there was a canine aquatherapy pool about 30 minutes drive from where I live. Your vet would probably know if there is one close to you. It needs to be a special pool for dogs, really - this one wasn't very big, but old Harry loved it!

Harryswim.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom