Christian Salvation Is Heinously Unjust

[Leumas]

Some Pertinent Background facts
According to the Christian Catechisms you can only be saved by believing in Christ. (Salvation)

Also, even if you are a sinner so long as you repent and avow that Christ died for your sins and are baptized you will still go to heaven. (Atonement)

Further, an apostate is even worse off than a non-believer....s/he will have an even hotter place in hell, due to the apostasy.

(See below for relevant bible verse references about the above facts)




A TRUE Scenario
A man and his wife who are very devout Christians and love Christ with all their hearts decide to enroll their boy in the church choir and worked hard towards the aim to serve Christ even better and to have their son be blessed in the service of Christ.

They eventually succeed and their little boy is now a member of the choir.

Unfortunately the heinous priest takes a liking to the young boy and after a while of showering him with special attention and favors manages to sequester him into the rectory where he attains his horrendous objective.

The violated boy runs crying to his parents who are utterly dismayed and start praying for Jesus to punish the priest with the same punishment that Christ gave Ananias and his wife (if you are not familiar with this see Acts 4[end] and 5).

Unfortunately NOTHING happens to the priest and even the church with all its FINANCIAL MIGHT fights the parents with ABLE lawyers and manages to squash the parents.

The parents are astonished utterly out of their faith.....they reason that if the bible is true then the priest should have dropped dead for a crime against the holy ghost which surely is much more heinous than withholding some money from Peter...... and since this did not occur then either Jesus is not God or that he only cares about money.

Accordingly the Mother....Father....and boy become APOSTATES.....and the parents DIED in a state of apostasy........where are they going to end up? In hell for ITERNITY......for gazillion years.

The Priest before dying confesses his sins and repents and kisses a rosary and avows his love for Christ......His funeral was a pomp affair and the numerous bishops and other priest gave him fabulous eulogies where they assured the attendants that Heaven for eternity was his final reward.



The Conclusion
Here we have a situation where a man who committed a most heinous crime in the house of Christ under Christ's gaze to an innocent boy who was entrusted into Christ's care.....forgiven and SAVED in heaven.

His VICTIMS are CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL HELL.....

The victims are burning for ever while the criminal is saved

IS THIS DIVINE JUSTICE?

If anything the above proves that, at the very least, Christianity is a heinously WRONG and UNJUST religion.


Reference Bible verses (** = stressed)

**Mark 16:16
John 3:18, 10:9
**Acts 13:38-39
Acts 15:11, 16:30-31
Rom 5:1, 5:9-10, 5:16, 9:30-33
**Rom 10:9-13
** 1 Corin 6:9-11
Eph 2:5
1 Pet 3:20-22
**Rom 11:6
Rom 11:11-26
1 Corin 3:10-15
**Eph 2:8-12
**2 Tim 1:9
**Titus 3:5
**1 Pet 3:20-22
**Rom 3:20-24
**Rom 3:28
**Rom 4:25-5:2
Rom 5:8-11
Rom 8:30
**Gal 2:16
**Gal 3:11
**Gal 5:4
Tim 3:10-11

 

[Sledge]

It's not true, so don't worry about it.

 

[SezMe]

Also, even if you are a sinner so long as you repent and avow that Christ died for your sins and are baptized you will still go to heaven. (Atonement)

I don't think this is true. The bible is quite self-contradictory on the matter.

 

[Leumas]

I don't think this is true. The bible is quite self-contradictory on the matter.

But it is a MAJOR tenet of Christianity (all denominations except Calvinistic ones)...... Evangelicals even boast about how many "sinners" have become saved in their churches….. but refer to some of the verses listed in the OP.

Is it not a Christian mainstay to give capital punishment prisoners their “last rites”?

 

[epix]

If anything the above proves that, at the very least, Christianity is a heinously WRONG and UNJUST religion.

You just confirm the diagnosis of the illness that atheism suffers from: an acute bipolar disorder. All rewards and punishments that modern Christianity supplies live in the form of a mere belief, as atheism teaches. So there is no reason to get excited unless you are affected by asthmatic atheism.

 

[slingblade]

But it is a MAJOR tenet of Christianity (all denominations except Calvinistic ones)...... Evangelicals even boast about how many "sinners" have become saved in their churches….. but refer to some of the verses listed in the OP.

Is it not a Christian mainstay to give capital punishment prisoners their “last rites”?

Not really. Last rites are primarily a Catholic institution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Rites

Few Protestants practice it.

 

[Maddparrot]

It's not true, so don't worry about it.

Right, and you can learn a lot more from Lydia than the bible.

 

[Denver]

Some Pertinent Background facts
According to the Christian Catechisms you can only be saved by believing in Christ. (Salvation)

Also, even if you are a sinner so long as you repent and avow that Christ died for your sins and are baptized you will still go to heaven. (Atonement)

Further, an apostate is even worse off than a non-believer....s/he will have an even hotter place in hell, due to the apostasy.

(See below for relevant bible verse references about the above facts)

I would not be surprised if that is true for some Christian traditions, but it's not true for all of them.

For example, some (like Catholicism) seem to say that belief is the easiest way, but it is not the only way. A summary of the necessities of salvation^WP can be found on wiki. For example, from the Catholic part:

...they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life"

In other traditions, you can find other ideas, such as that god acts alone, and nothing the person can do (believe, etc), has any effect on salvation. The whole idea of salvation seems to have evolved and branched out over the centuries.

 

[Complexity]

To maintain that a twisted delusion is unjust and to actually be concerned about said injustice is rather crazy.

I couldn't give a damn about the various xian sets of criteria for 'salvation', since the very idea is insane.

 

[Leumas]

To maintain that a twisted delusion is unjust and to actually be concerned about said injustice is rather crazy.

I couldn't give a damn about the various xian sets of criteria for 'salvation', since the very idea is insane.

One method for PROVING things to be wrong is to ASSUME the premise to be right and then proceed from there to show that it leads to a CONTRADICTION which therefore shows that the original premise is wrong.

So if we assume chrisitian premises to be correct and then from there deduce INSANE and RIDICULOUS results then it goes to show that the premises are wrong.

This method is potent especially when it comes to religions because you did not bring to bear anything outside the religion. You did not use extra-religious data or assumptions or anything that the religious may try to argue is not relevant since it is not in the book.

If by using the principles and laws of the religion you can show that it contradicts itself or leads to unacceptable results according to its own principles then you are proving that the religion is faulty EVEN BY ITS OWN principles.

Of course with 2000+ years of practiced use of illogic, fallacies and contortionistic acrobatic apologetics to wriggle and slither their way out of any application of logic there is no accounting as to what insanity they may bring to the argument to avoid any painful awakening.

 

[Complexity]

One method for PROVING...

'Proof' has meaning for me only in mathematics, and even there the assumptions that one must make are poorly understood. In philosophical discussions* and popular parlance, it is useless. In particular, 'proof' should not be used in discussions of science - 'evidence' and 'argument', yes, but not 'proof'.

* Some philosophical discussions approach the rigor required in mathematics, but they are few and far between.

 

[shandyjan]

I think you can never be good enough to suit the old writings. So it's best not to read them! Be good for goodness sake and not for thoughts of salvation, reincarnation or karma!

 

[Foster Zygote]

You just confirm the diagnosis of the illness that atheism suffers from: an acute bipolar disorder. All rewards and punishments that modern Christianity supplies live in the form of a mere belief, as atheism teaches. So there is no reason to get excited unless you are affected by asthmatic atheism.

Were you bitten by an atheist as a child? Where does the OP mention atheism? Leumas could be an atheist, but then he/she could be a Hindu, Jew, Buddhist or Sikh for all you know.

 

[sphenisc]

'Proof' has meaning for me only in mathematics, and even there the assumptions that one must make are poorly understood. In philosophical discussions* and popular parlance, it is useless. In particular, 'proof' should not be used in discussions of science - 'evidence' and 'argument', yes, but not 'proof'.

* Some philosophical discussions approach the rigor required in mathematics, but they are few and far between.

Leumas described proof by contradiction, which is an example of a logical proof. Logic being a branch of mathematics. So your point seems largely irrelevant.

 

[edge]

If anything the above proves that, at the very least, Christianity is a heinously WRONG and UNJUST religion.

This is why there are so many that left their practices and there are so many other sects all seeking the real truth.
The real truth is, the church is within you, you won’t find it behind four walls, we all have it with in, even atheists who practice real morality.
Christianity does not = Catholic obviously for many reasons ask an orthodox.
All churches should start with we are Christians first, not the other way around.
Does not mean that some that follow that form of faith aren’t real Christians.
Just because a man says your absolved doesn’t mean squat, judgments of men are like the dust and that’s in the bible.
The dog in that picture is more of a Christian than that priest.

 

[Kahalachan]

Leumas described proof by contradiction, which is an example of a logical proof. Logic being a branch of mathematics. So your point seems largely irrelevant.

That's true, but you can't as easily use the same logical practices with regards to language since words aren't as quantifiable as numbers. This is why religious apologetics are so easily able to weasel their way out.

"Unjust" is definitely going to be a word that is going to have tons of interpretations.

 

[C_Felix]

That's true, but you can't as easily use the same logical practices with regards to language since words aren't as quantifiable as numbers. This is why religious apologetics are so easily able to weasel their way out.
"Unjust" is definitely going to be a word that is going to have tons of interpretations.

The one killer word: Faith.

"I have faith in blah blah blah"


Also, to the OP, I don't want to sound rude, but, this isn't news. It is one of the main sticking points non-believers have with Christanity.

 

[fishbob]

Christian Salvation Is Heinously Unjust

No ***** Sherlock.

 

[Belz...]

Christian Salvation Is Heinously Unjust

I'll say. Only 144,000 jewish males are going to Heaven.

 

[Joecool]

Some Pertinent Background facts
According to the Christian Catechisms you can only be saved by believing in Christ. (Salvation)

Accordingly the Mother....Father....and boy become APOSTATES.....and the parents DIED in a state of apostasy........where are they going to end up? In hell for ITERNITY......for gazillion years.

The Priest before dying confesses his sins and repents and kisses a rosary and avows his love for Christ......His funeral was a pomp affair and the numerous bishops and other priest gave him fabulous eulogies where they assured the attendants that Heaven for eternity was his final reward.



The Conclusion
Here we have a situation where a man who committed a most heinous crime in the house of Christ under Christ's gaze to an innocent boy who was entrusted into Christ's care.....forgiven and SAVED in heaven.

His VICTIMS are CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL HELL.....

Upon what do you base your conclusion?