Question about the challenge rules

[MarkCorrigan]

No, this isn't about my application... I have a relative who claims to be a psychic (I found this out yesterday, I've met her but she's a somewhat distant relative) and I was wondering, the media attention needed for participation in the test, would being one of the psychics on a psychic TV channel count?

 

[paiute]

No, this isn't about my application... I have a relative who claims to be a psychic (I found this out yesterday, I've met her but she's a somewhat distant relative) and I was wondering, the media attention needed for participation in the test, would being one of the psychics on a psychic TV channel count?

I vote yes.

What, we don't vote?

 

[GregInAustin]

Count for what?

Cause you know, if you see it on TV, it MUST be real!

 

[Dumb All Over]

No, this isn't about my application... I have a relative who claims to be a psychic (I found this out yesterday, I've met her but she's a somewhat distant relative) and I was wondering, the media attention needed for participation in the test, would being one of the psychics on a psychic TV channel count?

One sure way to find out is to have your relative apply for the Million Dollar Challenge. Another way might be to simply call the JREF and ask them.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Count for what?

Cause you know, if you see it on TV, it MUST be real!

The part of the Challenge Application procedure that states you need media presence? Jesus you don't think I believe this nonsense do you?

One sure way to find out is to have your relative apply for the Million Dollar Challenge. Another way might be to simply call the JREF and ask them.

True, but I figured since there's a sub forum right here about the challenge I should ask.

 

[Fnord]

It never hurts to ask, but mere inquiry does not prove your relative's claim.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I would think that it would, but I don't make those decisions. I don't think it's that hard to get media presence. I think getting academic affidavits would be much, much harder. I don't know how seriously JREF takes the academic affidavits, though. It certainly seems like they were ready to test Anita Ikonen at TAM8, and I don't think she had the affidavits. I think the only reason she was not tested (and only had a demonstration) is that JREF realized that it's easier to find a deck of cards than it is to locate a number of people who were missing a kidney.

Anyway, there are a number of other cash prizes offered for paranormal ability. Some of them are in the UK. Some offer a finder's fee (Australian Skeptics and IIG). Obviously you are not after the finder's fee, but you probably have other relatives who are believers who could use the extra cash. You need to put them on the case.

So here's that list that I post from time to time of the active paranormal prizes that work roughly the same way as the MDC, but with fewer pre-test obstacles:

There's the Australian Skeptics' AU$100,000 Prize
http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/prize/
They also offer AU$20,000 as a "Spotter's Fee"

There's the IIG's US$50,000 Challenge in California, USA
http://www.iigwest.org/challenge.html
They also offer US$5,000 as a "Finder's Fee"

There's the North Texas Skeptic's US$12,000 Challenge in the USA
http://www.ntskeptics.org/challenge/challenge.htm

There's Prabir Ghosh's 2,000,000 Rupee Challenge in India
http://rationalistprabir.bravehost.com/

There's the Swedish 100,000SeK prize offered by Humanisterna
http://www.humanisterna.se/index.php...d=27&Itemid=49

The Tampa Bay Skeptics offers a US$1000 prize in Florida, USA
http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/challenges.html

In Canada there's the CAN$10,000 from the Quebec Skeptics
http://www.sceptiques.qc.ca/activites/defi

In the UK, the ASKE organization offers £14,000
http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/challenge_rules.htm

Tony Youens in the UK offers £5,000
http://www.tonyyouens.com/challenge.htm

In Finland, Skepsis offers 10,000 Euros
http://www.skepsis.fi/haaste/

The Fayetteville Freethinkers in Arkansas, USA offer a US$1000 prize
http://fayfreethinkers.com/

There's a 1,000,000 Yuan prize in China offered by Sima Nan. This is his blog: http://blog.sina.com.cn/simanan

The Belgian SKEPP organization offers a 10,500 Euro prize
http://www.skepp.be/prijzen/de-sisyphus-prijs/

If you find any broken links, or know of any tests not on this list, please notify me in this thread.

Thanks,

Ward

 

[MarkCorrigan]

It never hurts to ask, but mere inquiry does not prove your relative's claim.

Seriously what's with the people assuming I believe her? I'm actually ashamed she's a relative, she bilks people out of money on a scam TV show!

Thanks Wardenclyffe, I may pass information about those on to her. I mean, she clearly has no problem being made famous and earning money from her "talent" so why would she baulk at these?

 

[Fnord]

Seriously what's with the people assuming I believe her?

I did not make that assumption. I was more concerned that she might somehow derive personal validation from this thread ... ("See? I'm such an effective psychic that even those sceptics at JREF are interested!")

It's similar behavior to that which ensues whenever someone is declared a "person of interest" in a police investigation -- I mean, they wouldn't be innocent if the police were interested in them, right?

 

[wardenclyffe]

Seriously what's with the people assuming I believe her? I'm actually ashamed she's a relative, she bilks people out of money on a scam TV show!

Thanks Wardenclyffe, I may pass information about those on to her. I mean, she clearly has no problem being made famous and earning money from her "talent" so why would she baulk at these?

I'll bet she will balk, though. That's where those finder's fees come in to play. These challenges are not designed to convince the claimant that they do not have special powers. That almost never works. The challenges are designed to convince other believers that the claimant - and all claimants in general - do not have special powers. Now, you need to find a believer who is close to your relative. You need to convince that person that he or she needs to convince your relative to apply for a test. This person who is close to your relative now has a horse in this race. They can qualify for the finder's fee. Now when your relative balks, she's taking money out of the pocket of a believer. The believer must ask themselves, "Why won't she help me out here? She can do this. I've seen her do it. It should be easy and she'd make a lot of money and she make money for me, too. Unless maybe I've been tricked this whole time........"

Ward

 

[Tim Harrod]

The challenges are designed to convince other believers that the claimant - and all claimants in general - do not have special powers.

I disagree. The above wording suggests a dogmatic over-application of skepticism on the JREF's part. The challenge and the tests that result are designed to determine whether or not the claimant has powers. Anyone interested is invited to draw their own conclusions from the test's outcomes.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The point is that the public challenge is designed to reach the general public. It's not designed to convince the challenge applicant of anything. It's designed to reach people who believe (and don't believe) in that applicant and similar potential applicants. Yes, the public can draw whatever conclusions it wants from the results.

Ward

 

[jhutchins11]

Being on TV doesn't count for **** especially under the present rules for controls. However if she were able to reproduce the effect she performed fo the television crew with proper controls under observation of the JREF team with successful results, then maybe yes, it would count.

 

[wardenclyffe]

Being on TV does count. It satisfies the pre-condition of a media presence which is necessary in order to apply for the MDC. The other challenges on the list don't require a media presence, so that's one less hurdle to overcome. However, if someone were to pass one of those other challenges, they would surely attract both media and academic attention, thereby qualifying for the MDC. While these other challenges are not a formal path to the MDC, passing one of them would certainly get an applicant much, much closer to a million dollars.

Ward

 

[jhutchins11]

My mistake, I read through the application rules a number of years ago and at that time I don't recall they had a media presence requirement. Under the example of Prophet Yahweh I was under the impression he was trying to use the time he went on television for an affidavit for proof that he was real and I remember reading their reply to that.