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Jehovah's Witnesses take on Biblical incest

MikeSun5

Trigger Happy Pacifist,
MikeSun5
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
1,871
So a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door to preach their silliness a few days ago, and as usual, I welcomed the discussion. They talked about how Islam was all about violence and then pointed to a passage in the Bible that talked about how God's Kingdom would crush all other kingdoms. I pointed out the hypocracy in that, which caused them to switch gears to the whole "money is the root of all evil" passage in the book of Timothy. So I mentioned how I thought that was odd because all churches pass the collection plate. That's when they cut the pleasant visit short and handed me their literature, which I hungrily read in preparation for next time.

The little pamphlet-book had an article entitled "Where did Cain find his wife?" that caught my eye immediately. From studying the Book of Genesis, they admit that Cain's wife was a descendant of Eve. Then things got weird:

Jehovah's Witness literature said:
That Cain married his sister or a later female descendant of Adam through the marriage of any of Adam's sons or daughters is viewed by some societies today as unthinkable. This is usually because of societal taboos or fear of genetic defects. Nevertheleess, F. LaGard Smith comments in The Narrated Bible in Chronological Order: "It is altogether likely that these first brothers and sisters enter into marriages with each other, despite the sense of inappropriateness which would be felt should that occur in following generations." Also, it is noteworthy that it was not until Moses received God's laws for the nation of Israel in 1513 B.C.E. that intercourse between such close relatives was specifically forbidden. -Leviticus 18:9, 17, 24.

Today, we are milleniums away from the perfection once possessed by our original parents. The effect that genetics and heredity have on us might not have been a factor for them. Furthermore, recent studies, such as one published in the Journal of Genetic Counseling, show that unions between first cousins face lower risks of having children with birth defets than is widely perceived.
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So there you have it. Incest was committed, but it was okay because God hadn't told anyone that it was bad yet. Also, Adam and Eve and Co. were genetically perfect, so they weren't affected by the (debatable) consequences of human inbreeding as we know it today.

Man, I wonder which Jesus or God I have to pray to so those Jehovah's Witnesses come back to my door again...
 
well come on, when the only choice is your mum or your sister..........
:D
 
bellini.jpg
 
They believe original sin caused a genetic defect which got worse (evolved ;)) with each subsequent generation.

They explain this by saying if you make Jello in a mold with a dent, make a new mold from your dessert, make a dessert from the new mold, and repeat this process many times, the dent will grow.

Eve was the one being punished but the Sin Gene caused even more problems for future generations. We are getting more punishment than Eve got.

Eve and Adam were genetically perfect with one ding in the Jello mold, so their kids were nearly perfect too. That's why their kids could have sex with each other, and their grandkids with their cousins, because they had so little Sin DNA.

If that makes sense to anyone, let me know!

Maybe you can ask them about the Jello illustration ("illustration" is one of their favorite words) the next time you see them. You're in for a treat. ;)
 
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imagineaa said:
They explain this by saying if you make Jello in a mold with a dent, make a new mold from your dessert, make a dessert from the new mold, and repeat this process many times, the dent will grow.
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The mold made from the dented dessert wouldn't be the exact same size as the original dented mold? :confused: Twisting the physical laws of nature is definitely a step up from twisting the words of Biblical scripture. I'm impressed with the JWs!

Either way, I'll be sure to offer them some Jell-O next time. :D
 
MikeSun5 said:
The mold made from the dented dessert wouldn't be the exact same size as the original dented mold?
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I imagine the difficulty in trying to take a mold of jell-o might deform the shape over generations, but that's not exactly what they're trying to get at.
 
MikeSun5 said:
I pointed out the hypocracy in that, which caused them to switch gears to the whole "money is the root of all evil" passage in the book of Timothy. So I mentioned how I thought that was odd because all churches pass the collection plate.
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Both they and you have got the quote wrong. It is the love of money which is the root of all evil
 
When I was still knee-high to a grasshopper, some friends took me along to church..after the service I asked the preacher "If Adam and Eve had 2 sons ,Cain and Abel,and Cain killed his brother..was then thrown out..who did he marry ??..The answer was that I should not ask such questions and just accept the written word as gospel.That's when I converted and became a Skeptic.
 
MrBooglemaumau said:
When I was still knee-high to a grasshopper, some friends took me along to church..after the service I asked the preacher "If Adam and Eve had 2 sons ,Cain and Abel,and Cain killed his brother..was then thrown out..who did he marry ??..The answer was that I should not ask such questions and just accept the written word as gospel.That's when I converted and became a Skeptic.
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How old were you when you were knee high to a grasshopper?
 
It may well be that the Cain and Abel story was originally separate from that of Adam and Eve, which is why Cain could fear that men would kill him and is also why he could find a wife. Cain's name means "smith," which relates to the Kenites, a biblical tribe of itinerant smiths. Abel's name means "breath," referring to his life being cut short. He was as insubstantial as a breath.

My favorite biblical incest story is that of Lot and his daughters. It was particularly celebrated by artists of the Baroque period. Of course Sarah was Abraham's half-sister. Since they shared a common father, but had different mothers, they were allowed to marry. This would imply an endogamous, matrilineal system of kinship.
 
MikeSun5 said:
The mold made from the dented dessert wouldn't be the exact same size as the original dented mold? :confused: Twisting the physical laws of nature is definitely a step up from twisting the words of Biblical scripture. I'm impressed with the JWs!

Either way, I'll be sure to offer them some Jell-O next time. :D
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They're trying to say everyone is not made from the same mold, they are made from their parents as a mold. The errors come with the replication, kind of like the telephone game.:boggled:

As with many of their illustrations, it makes no gd sense, which is good when you try to explain the flaws in their teachings to them.
 
I like Asimov"s take on the Cain and Abel personages. Makes much more sense.
 
elbe said:
I imagine the difficulty in trying to take a mold of jell-o might deform the shape over generations, but that's not exactly what they're trying to get at.
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They should have learned from the Plaster Casters. Their molds seemed to work just fine!:D
 
MikeSun5 said:
So there you have it. Incest was committed, but it was okay because God hadn't told anyone that it was bad yet. Also, Adam and Eve and Co. were genetically perfect, so they weren't affected by the (debatable) consequences of human inbreeding as we know it today.

Man, I wonder which Jesus or God I have to pray to so those Jehovah's Witnesses come back to my door again...
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You honestly disagree with incest being "okay" in circumstances where it's the only means for reproduction?
 
cornsail said:
You honestly disagree with incest being "okay" in circumstances where it's the only means for reproduction?
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According to this thing (scroll midway down), there were many hundreds of years between when Cain was having sex with his family and the great flood that made Noah's family have sex with each other. Over 1000 years is plenty of time to create enough people to make incest NOT be the "only means for reproduction."

Then it took almost another 1000 years before Moses told everyone that incest was bad. So if you account for the few generations it would take to make sex "not" be considered incest (not sure what the guideline is.... less than 1%?), there are still hundreds of years where incest was unnecessary but still totally cool. ....and that is gross.

Bad form, God.
 
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