Lisbon Treaty ratified

i have no problem with an European Economic Union. But a political and social union?

why did you guys agree to this?

each country had to pass it by at least 50% in a national referendum right?

does the constitution say a state can secede and how they can do it?
 
Arcade22 said:
I don't think so, the Swedish parliament voted for it here.
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well, that sux then. if my country joined a new political, social, and economic union with other countries, and tore down all visa and other border restrictions, I'd like it go to to a national referendum.

seems like you all just got played.
 
I believe most (all?) countries had a referendum on that when they joined or formed the EU in the first place. The Lisbon Treaty doesn't really change that much.
 
icerat said:
I believe most (all?) countries had a referendum on that when they joined or formed the EU in the first place. The Lisbon Treaty doesn't really change that much.
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as long as nations only joined the EU after a national referendum, that's fine.

i also believe that a nation should have the ability to secede from the Union, if they feel that the Union's direction and laws are just too wrong for its people.

does the Lisbon Treaty include anything about secession?

i mean, lets say in 25 years, the EU decides to start banning all Muslim immigrants. shouldn't an EU state have the ability to secede based on such an intolerant standpoint? I do.
 
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Hooray! Here's a stronger, more efficient EU.

parky76 said:
well, that sux then. if my country joined a new political, social, and economic union with other countries, and tore down all visa and other border restrictions, I'd like it go to to a national referendum.

seems like you all just got played.
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The people vote in general elections, and the new Parliament votes on the issue. If most of the British electorate had voted for a Eurosceptic party like the Tories, the Parliament would likely vote no.

parky76 said:
i mean, lets say in 25 years, the EU decides to start banning all Muslim immigrants. shouldn't an EU state have the ability to secede based on such an intolerant standpoint? I do.
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Sure, with a general election.
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
Sure, with a general election.
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what does that mean? the people have to put in an anti-EU party into power, and then the parliament of that country can vote to secede from the Union?

can u point to a source for this? i looked up the EU treaty and the treaty of Lisbon and found no stipulations for secession, only stipulations for non-application of certain EU laws to certain countries.
 
parky76 said:
what does that mean? the people have to put in an anti-EU party into power, and then the parliament of that country can vote to secede from the Union?
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There is no practical way to stop a country from leaving the EU.
 
parky76 said:
what does that mean? the people have to put in an anti-EU party into power, and then the parliament of that country can vote to secede from the Union?

can u point to a source for this? i looked up the EU treaty and the treaty of Lisbon and found no stipulations for secession, only stipulations for non-application of certain EU laws to certain countries.
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Sure. Article 49a I believe.

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article　218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
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The people vote in general elections, and the new Parliament votes on the issue. If most of the British electorate had voted for a Eurosceptic party like the Tories, the Parliament would likely vote no.
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Most of the British electorate voted for parties that pledged a referendum on the Constitution/Lisbon Treaty. Funny how that didn't happen.

Now, a stronger, more efficient EU may be a good thing, but I wouldn't mind if it was something we democratically wanted. Actually having a referendum at some point on the EU would be a good thing. I never had a vote on one, I wasn't even alive when the referendum for joining the economic bloc was held.
 
Way back in 1975, yes. At which point (and this corrects my earlier statement), we were already a member of the European Economic Community, essentially a free trade area. The referendum was on whether or not we should stay in that group.

We never had a referendum when the EU was created. We were promised, but not granted, a referendum over this latest treaty. This has led to quite an undemocratic situation, especially when polls suggest a majority of people in the UK would like to leave the EU.

The EU is an undemocratic, unrepresentative, overly bureaucratic institution, and should not be supported in it's present state.
 
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