Alert in Israel raised to second highest level

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Makes perfect sense to Tin Foil Timothy, The Fool, and the rest of the Hamas apologists.

Oooooo. I'm a Hamas apologist now am I.

The old ameoba level 1 bit thinking rears it's unintellectual head once again I see.


"You are either with us or with the terrorists!" - Idiot Bush


Personally I think both Hamas and Israel are terrorists. I don't condone the targeting and killing of innocent civilians, but I do support the Palestinians for fighting against the persecution they have to endure.

I don't have a problem with Israel defending itself, but Israel's actions are way way way beyond any reasonable act of defense.

What are you Wildcat? An Israel Apologist?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Me too.
I hesitated about even starting this thread -- I've been conspicuously absent from JREF for a while, avoiding joining topics about this conflict. It was all just getting to be too intense, talking about these same things, over and over.

But today, a full-scale artillery terror barrage against non-military "targets" --- why?
What are they possibly hoping to achieve? This is nuts.

Well at least with Israel's 60 year+ attacks on non military Palestinian targets you know for sure what they are trying to achieve. And that's to drive the Palestinians out of Palestine so Israel can have it all for themselves. Amazingly some people continue to be in denial of this more than obvious agenda.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Since 9am (local Tel Aviv time) dozens more rockets and mortars have been raining down on homes, malls, and children's playgrounds, as these Palestinian terrorist gangs are indiscrimately bombing the civilians of the State of Israel.
This extraordinary barrage includes GRAD-Katyusha's that are exploding within Ashkelon city limits.

I know JREF Forums has other threads about the situation in Gaza (one recent topic has gone on for 300 + posts, 8 pages) ----- Sure, this is just "more of the same" in that neck of the woods.

But for a moment, just imagine yourselves under rocket attack in your town or city: What would you demand of your government?

Image yourself being a 2nd class citizen under a system of apartheid where your wife died in pain due to complications because she was denied access to hospital care and had to give birth at a dirty Israeli checkpoint.

"children's playgrounds" ?? - We can all play those emotional games of political leverage.

 

[Thunder]

The fact is that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have fired 100 rockets into Israel today. These attacks were unprovoked. I am no fan of Israel's Apartheid-racist policies, but they still have every right to defend themselves and stop these attacks against innocent civilians.

Even convicted felons in jail have the right not to be beaten up by guards or fellow prisoners.

 

[webfusion]

gdnp: "Did you expect Hamas to just roll over and concede? "

Actually, yes, that's the plan. All the major political parties in Israel have declared that is the goal -- to overturn the HAMAS control of the Gaza Strip.

On Thursday, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert urged Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to reject their HAMAS rulers. (Reportedly in an interview with Al Arabiya television,)


===================

Harsh winter weather conditions in Israel are hampering visibility and complicating air force missions, so any IDF invasion operation won't be launched until the skies clear.

 

[BirdStrike]

Are you suggesting that Hamas attacking Israeli military positions would not be an act of war?

You are master of the strawmen. Truely.

Today:

Lebanon: Rockets on Timers Defused Near Israeli Border

Lebanese army officers say troops have discovered seven rockets set up with timers that were on the verge of firing near the border with Israel.

Two senior officers say troops are dismantling the Katyusha rockets, discovered Thursday near the border town of Naqoura.

They say the rockets' timers were activated, and one of the officers says the rockets were to have fired overnight.

Looks like some orders from Damascus have been sent to widen the offensive a bit.

 

[Thunder]

but I do support the Palestinians for fighting against the persecution they have to endure.

Does that include firing rockets into Israeli towns and villages? What violent Israeli action is this in retaliation for?

Does that include specifically trying to harm and kill Israeli civilians and NOT soldiers?

Does that include suicide bombings against Israeli women and children?

...I expect no response.

 

[BirdStrike]

Does that include firing rockets into Israeli towns and villages? What violent Israeli action is this in retaliation fo Does that include specifically trying to harm and kill Israeli civilians and NOT soldiers? Does that include suicide bombings against Israeli women and children?...I expect no response.

Parky,

Of course Timmy's highly-radicalized posts elicit a response. That is who Timmy is. Learn to take humor from them rather than try to change his nutty perspective.

I've only been at JREF a month and I see already that when it comes to anything Israel and Palestine there is a core group of posters who engage in an excessive exchange of confrontational postings. Dragging everyone else in. At first I was sucked in too.

Timmy is one such guy, because his posts are so flammable:

Image yourself being a 2nd class citizen under a system of apartheid where your wife died in pain due to complications because she was denied access to hospital care and had to give birth at a dirty Israeli checkpoint.

What does that have to do with Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilian centers? Nothing. It's Timmy being Timmy.

I am going to take this course from now on at JREF. As soon as someone uses personal attacks, slurs, or purposely-built strawmen, I'm no longer going to help them polarize the thread. Just my 2 cents.

 

[The Fool]

Makes perfect sense to Tin Foil Timothy, The Fool, and the rest of the Hamas apologists.

I find I don't need to participate in these sort of threads as a load of bollocks will be cobbled together and assigned to me anyway. Recently I have been calling for the Invasion of Gaza and the forced removal of Hamas. Is that what makes me a Hamas apologist? Whereas you don't agree with this. You believe they should be left in power and that is what makes you not a Hamas apologist. Laughable.


Israel has shown over the last 60+ years that they have no chance of ending this trouble by persuing the path that you salute with such enthusiasm. Time to take the responsibility off them.

 

[BirdStrike]

Recently I have been calling for the Invasion of Gaza and the forced removal of Hamas.

The only way out I see is if the people of Gaza start mass demonstrations against the rockets and Hamas. Hamas will not disarm willingly, even to the Palestinian Authority.

 

[Thunder]

The only way out I see is if the people of Gaza start mass demonstrations against the rockets and Hamas. Hamas will not disarm willingly, even to the Palestinian Authority.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/drsanity/priorities.gif

The Palestinians are in a horrible predicament. They can either choose the Islamic extremist Hamas, who is less corrupt more seems to be unable and unwilling to make any real peace with Israel, or Fatah which is known for their corruption and utter stupidity.

They need a liberal-democrat alternative...but they would never choose that.

 

[The Fool]

The only way out I see is if the people of Gaza start mass demonstrations against the rockets and Hamas. Hamas will not disarm willingly, even to the Palestinian Authority.

[qimg]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/drsanity/priorities.gif[/qimg]

Ah yes...The Palestinian Authority. Rival of Hamas, probably the only viable alternative to Hamas. They are the ones we support....ooops, no. They are the ones we strangle.

 

[gdnp]

gdnp: "Did you expect Hamas to just roll over and concede? "

Actually, yes, that's the plan. All the major political parties in Israel have declared that is the goal -- to overturn the HAMAS control of the Gaza Strip.

On Thursday, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert urged Palestinians in the Gaza Strip to reject their HAMAS rulers. (Reportedly in an interview with Al Arabiya television,)

Reread my question: did you expect Hamas to just roll over and concede?

All major parties in Israel have declared as a goal to overturn Hamas control in that Gaza strip. A reasonable goal. I would also like to see control of the Gaza strip revert to the Palestinian authority.

Israel has been squeezing Gaza and Hamas through the blockade. The question is, did you expect Hamas to concede without a fight? If so, you are naive.

 

[gdnp]

You are master of the strawmen. Truely.

Really? this is what you said:

Well I look at it this way. Hamas is shelling civilians on purpose, not Israeli military positions. So in my book that is an act of war.

Earth to BirdStrike: on this planet, shelling your neighbor is an act of war regardless of who or what you are shelling. Shelling military targets is considered a lawful military tactic. Targeting civilians is a war crime. Or terrorism, take your pick.

It is hard to debate someone who has such a poor grasp of basic concepts.

Looks like some orders from Damascus have been sent to widen the offensive a bit.

Evidence?

 

[WildCat]

I find I don't need to participate in these sort of threads as a load of bollocks will be cobbled together and assigned to me anyway. Recently I have been calling for the Invasion of Gaza and the forced removal of Hamas. Is that what makes me a Hamas apologist?

No, it's your demonizing of Israel as soon as there's a single civilian casualty that makes you a Hamas apologist. Much like you did right here on this forum the last time Israel took action in Gaza.

 

[gdnp]

Does that include firing rockets into Israeli towns and villages? What violent Israeli action is this in retaliation for?

A blockade is an act of war. Locking you in a room and cutting off your food and water is murder just as shooting or poisoning you is.

Does that include specifically trying to harm and kill Israeli civilians and NOT soldiers?

Is the blockade trying to harm palestinian civilians or Hamas soldiers?

Does that include suicide bombings against Israeli women and children?

One act of war does not justify an act of terrorism, no.

 

[Thunder]

A blockade is an act of war. Locking you in a room and cutting off your food and water is murder just as shooting or poisoning you is.
Is the blockade trying to harm palestinian civilians or Hamas soldiers?


One act of war does not justify an act of terrorism, no.

and why exactly is there an Israeli blockade?

because of the rocket fire from Gaza.

stop the rocket fire, and all will be well. trade will function again.

Gaza could have been a shining symbol of Hamas' ability to lead a country in peace and prosperity....with much more to come. Instead, it has become a shining beacon of their dismal failure and inability/unwillingness to live in peace with Israel.

But once again, stop the rocket fire, and all will be well.

Edit: Ok, I feel kinda stupid. According to the Wikpedia article, the Israeli blockade began immediately after Hamas took over Gaza. It was not a reaction to any violent acts on the part of Hamas. Israel agreed to allow only in enough food, medicine, and supplies to avoid a humanitarian disaster (crumbs and sips so they dont starve to death).

Is Hamas' violent reaction to the blockade warranted? I believe that they have the legal right to defend themselves from violence, but I dont see how attacking Israeli civilians is really an act of self-defense. It is more an act of retribution.

What should Hamas do...short of handing over the territory to Fatah? Stop the rocket fire, call for an open-ended complete truce with Israel, and demand that the blockade be lifted in exchange for the truce.

 

[WildCat]

Just as a reminder to The Fool about his position last time around:

My governments reaction to the last terrorist bombing of Australians is well documented and I encourage you to read about it if you are interested. It happened in Bali....please note that we did not consider occupying bali or any other parts of Indonesia or inflicting anything on the criminals families or home towns or any other people of the same nationality or religion.. Basically the criminals responsible were rounded up arrested and tried under the appropriate juristiction (Indonesian)..

Now he expects me to believe he is sincere in calling for the invasion and occupation of Gaza.

Sorry, I'm not buying that bridge from you Fool.

 

[BenBurch]

I am shocked, shocked, shocked that the populace which supports 11 political parties founded by terrorists (and just 1 which wasn't) allows this sort of thing to happen!

Surely, peace-loving Palestinians (who make up the overwhelming majority according to some people here) are rioting in the streets demanding an end to this madness... can you link to a story of these riots webfusion?

And why do you think the people who want peace aren't so terrified of those terrorists themselves that they would never dare to say a word in protest?

 

[gdnp]

Ah yes...The Palestinian Authority. Rival of Hamas, probably the only viable alternative to Hamas. They are the ones we support....ooops, no. They are the ones we strangle.

The Palestinians need a Nelson Mandela. My hope is that if and when Marwan Barghouti gets out of jail he can fill that role. Which is why I don't think Israel will let him out any time soon. They want the Palestinian leadership fragmented, weak, and corrupt. As long as Hamas is battling the PLO they cannot mount an effective campaign against Israel, nor can the Israelis be expected to negotiate.

Unfortunately, the longer that Gaza and the West Bank remain isolated from each other the further they will grow apart. I am not sure that a state split in two by a hostile country can survive as a single entity. The rivalries will be too strong. It didn't work with Pakistan and Bangladesh. If Israel doesn't solve this soon they may be looking at a 3 state solution.