Recipe for a strong democracy

[Octavo]

I've been thinking about the local political situation (which I wont bore you with here) and trying to come up with what the key ingredients are for a healthy democracy.

I'm hoping you will post what you think is key for a healthy, stable democracy.

I'll start the list off by adding a free press and an independent judiciary and hope you guys will chime in with your thoughts!

 

[Alex Libman]

Democracy BAD.

Freedom GOOD.

 

[Ziggurat]

Property rights. They are essential for protecting minority groups.

And a public which believes in democracy. No democracy has ever lasted once its citizens stop believing in democratic principles, and the public is always capable of voting to give up its rights.

 

[Ziggurat]

Democracy BAD.

Freedom GOOD.

It seems that Octavo is using the term "democracy" rather broadly, to include such governments as constitutional republics (which is what we have in the US), and not to indicate a direct democracy. In which case, Churchill's words are apt: democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

 

[TexasJack]

Freedom of speech

 

[Alex Libman]

In which case, Churchill's words are apt: democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

And Bill Gates has said "640K ought to be enough for everybody". (Not really, but it's funny that way.)

A political system that is based on the Non-Aggression Principle is superior to one that isn't. I agree that this isn't possible in a decade or two, at least not in the society at large, but, well... Things change.

 

[D'rok]

Universal suffrage + high standard of education.

 

[Ziggurat]

A political system that is based on the Non-Aggression Principle is superior to one that isn't.

Umm... what the hell does that even mean?

I agree that this isn't possible in a decade or two, at least not in the society at large, but, well... Things change.

Unless you plan on genetically engineering the human race, you can't get rid of aggression. Nor most of the other host of human failings.

 

[drkitten]

A political system that is based on the Non-Aggression Principle is superior to one that isn't.

Absolutely. Fairy tales are almost always superior to reality, because "and they all lived happily ever after" is always satisfying, but never true.

I agree that this isn't possible in a decade or two, at least not in the society at large,

Nor in the society at small. You understate your case. Not in a decade or two, not in a century or two, not ever.

but, well... Things change.

Not that much, they don't.

 

[Alex Libman]

Umm... what the hell does that even mean?

I've had my account suspended on this forum once for not following the party line, so I'm not taking it very seriously any more. Unless you're willing to pay me to lecture you on Anarcho-Capitalism 101, you'll have to look it up yourself. You might learn something.

Unless you plan on genetically engineering the human race, you can't get rid of aggression. Nor most of the other host of human failings.

There will always be aggression, true, but as civilization advances, petty crime pays less and less. By far, the greatest source of aggression in the world is institutionalized aggression carried out by governments. Every penny that the government spends, it steals.

 

[Octavo]

Democracy BAD.

Freedom GOOD.

Right... Freedom is good, but as a system of government it's never really caught on.

Property rights. They are essential for protecting minority groups.

And a public which believes in democracy. No democracy has ever lasted once its citizens stop believing in democratic principles, and the public is always capable of voting to give up its rights.

Agreed and I think a big part of that is education and a free press (to keep the public from becoming too complacent.

Universal suffrage + high standard of education.

What exactly do you mean by "universal" suffrage? Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant - do you include convicts, the mentally ill, etc? Perhaps it's easier to ask, who isn't allowed to vote?

Should it always be 1 man, 1 vote or can there ever be a fair system that allocates votes on some sort of merit basis (I doubt it, but I ask anyway).

Freedom of speech

Agreed. People must be able to lawfully protest as well.


Good stuff so far!

 

[Alex Libman]

Not that much, they don't.

Humanity has evolved from inorganic goo into fungus, sponges, sea squirts, marsupials, rodents, primates, and eventually a civilization capable of PHP-powered Internet forums. But private transportation infrastructure, arbitration, and security firms - oh no, that's an outright impossibility...

 

[drkitten]

Humanity has evolved from inorganic goo into fungus, sponges, sea squirts, marsupials, rodents, primates, and eventually a civilization capable of PHP-powered Internet forums.

Yes. And yet, it still hasn't produced square triangles.....

But private transportation infrastructure, arbitration, and security firms - oh no, that's an outright impossibility...

Yes. Provably impossible things tend to remain provably impossible. One of the nice things about game theory is that we can prove that rational actors will not do irrational things.

And Libertarianism is built upon the assumption of irrational rationality.

 

[drkitten]

I've had my account suspended on this forum once for not following the party line,

No, you had your account suspended because you couldn't follow the forum rules.

A subtle but important difference there.

Actually, I tell a lie. The difference isn't especially subtle.

 

[D'rok]

What exactly do you mean by "universal" suffrage? Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant - do you include convicts, the mentally ill, etc? Perhaps it's easier to ask, who isn't allowed to vote?

Should it always be 1 man, 1 vote or can there ever be a fair system that allocates votes on some sort of merit basis (I doubt it, but I ask anyway).

Universal suffrage generally implies 1 citizen, 1 vote. All citizens in a just democracy possess democratic rights, and no just democracy withholds or grants citizenship arbitrarily. Which brings up another point - a strong democracy also requires respect for the rule of law.