RIP: Tony Snow

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I for one will miss Tony Snow. He was a very good guest on Bill Maher's show and seemed like a likable and intelligent man with a sense of humor and good looks.

I might not have agreed with his politics but I certainly didn't wish the man any harm and am very sad that he didn't beat cancer and had to die this way.

 

[Foolmewunz]

is known by many more?

Tony Snow will be a "Tony Who?" in about five to ten years. DeBakey will be remembered for a long time. His impact was far greater (if, arguably, Snow had any impact, whatsoever).

I don't watch the political punditry on US television because I don't get many shows over here. I had to read through the thread to see who was being discussed. Nasty way to go out - I automatically shudder when someone younger than me dies of somewhat natural causes - and I hope his family isn't hurting too much. So, no disrespect for the guy - after all, I know nothing of him, really....

 

[mrbaracuda]

Tony Snow will be a "Tony Who?" in about five to ten years. DeBakey will be remembered for a long time. His impact was far greater (if, arguably, Snow had any impact, whatsoever).

No disagreement here.

I don't watch the political punditry on US television because I don't get many shows over here. I had to read through the thread to see who was being discussed. Nasty way to go out - I automatically shudder when someone younger than me dies of somewhat natural causes - and I hope his family isn't hurting too much. So, no disrespect for the guy - after all, I know nothing of him, really....

You can watch the press conferences and many other things, be it government related or book discussions etc on C-Span for free online at www.c-span.org ! All you need is RealPlayer. I suggest getting RealAlternative instead though.

 

[The Painter]

I really don't care, because I didn't know him personally. I'm wondering how much the media will obsess over this, so close to Tim Russert dying, instead of doing journalism.

I've already forgotten about him. What did he get? About a week or so of news coverage. His kid on the Today show. I wonder how much news coverage on the networks Snow will get? Oh, wait, it's over.

 

[technoextreme]

Tony Snow will be a "Tony Who?" in about five to ten years. DeBakey will be remembered for a long time. His impact was far greater (if, arguably, Snow had any impact, whatsoever).

DeBakey will be remembered just as long as Tony Snow will be in their respective fields. The world is going to forget about both of them just as fast.

 

[gdnp]

DeBakey will be remembered just as long as Tony Snow will be in their respective fields. The world is going to forget about both of them just as fast.

Sorry, no. DeBakey was a giant in medicine. He may not have been well known in the lay world, but he will be remembered along with Christiaan Barnard as one of the pioneers in cardiac surgery. He did the first coronary bypass operation, now one of the most commonly performed major surgeries. Link.

In 1964, he performed the first coronary artery bypass surgery, removing a section of vein from the patient's leg and inserting it into the coronary artery to bypass a blocked section.

Two years later, he was the first to implant a left ventricular assist device - a small pump designed to take some of the load off a failing heart - inserting it into the chest of a 37-year-old Mexican beautician whose heart would not start after surgery.

Two years after that, he performed the first multi-organ transplant, taking a heart, a lung and two kidneys from one donor and placing them in four recipients.

Tony Snow: a press spokesman and speechwriter. He didn't make policy--he was just the mouthpiece. Other than that, a reporter and a talking head. Name a single big story he broke. A single opinion piece or commentary that made a significant difference.

Sorry. Even if Snow and DeBakey were in the same sport, they would not have been in the same league.

 

[kakariki]

I have sympathy for his family because it is horrible to lose someone you love. However, my opinion of Tony Snow is that he was a vile man. Even after he knew he was dying he chose to continue to lie and spin for the Bush administration and that is shameful.

 

[Wheezebucket]

Politics... the last frontier of woo for skeptics. Tony's crime? Yeah, he was not ideologically pure. Sorry Tony. You should have been a doctor, developed a life saving procedure, invented a new drug or have been a Democrat.

What is considered 'ideologically pure'? I'm confused. It's woo to not give a damn if some guy you considered a bit of a douche kicked the bucket? What changes about a person after they're dead that is supposed to reform your opinions you had of them while alive? I have to agree with his opinions now? Weird!

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I have sympathy for his family because it is horrible to lose someone you love. However, my opinion of Tony Snow is that he was a vile man. Even after he knew he was dying he chose to continue to lie and spin for the Bush administration and that is shameful.

Would the fact that he spoke out against some of the policies of the Bush administration do anything to soften your opinion?

There are people in Bush's administration I'd call vile but he wasn't one of them. I'd disagree with him on many things but he seemed to be sincere in his politics and to have the courage of his convictions.

I admired the fact that he wasn't afraid to enter the lion's den and appear on shows such as Jon Stewart's to defend unpopular views in an audience unfavorable to him.

 

[RandFan]

What is considered 'ideologically pure'? I'm confused. It's woo to not give a damn if some guy you considered a bit of a douche kicked the bucket? What changes about a person after they're dead that is supposed to reform your opinions you had of them while alive?

I'm speaking generally. I have no one poster specifically in mind. I find that Republicans are far more likely to admire and respect Republicans than Democrats and Democrats far more likely to admire and respect Democrats than Republicans.

I suppose I could ignore the evidence and pretend otherwise but I don't see the point of that.

FTR, you are free to resent and hold in contempt anyone you wish. It's your natural right.

 

[T.A.M.]

You know I don't post in this section often, but some of the comments here kind of forces my conscience to be heard.

I think DeBakey will of course be remembered long after Snow. However, as others have said, Tony Snow was taken from his family and friends long before he should have. He leaves people behind who will miss him dearly. Many of these people, of course, were involved in the media, and therefore they will cover it, as they did with Russert, a fair bit more. How some of you are so incapable of empathy, or even sympathy, is unsettling.

If you don't like what the news covers, then (A) do something about it, or (B) shut the **** up, turn it off, and go out and get some exercise and fibre.

Really. Some people here, I think, act horrible. My only hope is that you write things so insensitive here because you need an outlet for anger. The alternative, that some of you are truly that horrible in "real life", is a little disturbing.

TAM

 

[Tailgater]

You know I don't post in this section often, but some of the comments here kind of forces my conscience to be heard.

I think DeBakey will of course be remembered long after Snow. However, as others have said, Tony Snow was taken from his family and friends long before he should have. He leaves people behind who will miss him dearly. Many of these people, of course, were involved in the media, and therefore they will cover it, as they did with Russert, a fair bit more. How some of you are so incapable of empathy, or even sympathy, is unsettling.

If you don't like what the news covers, then (A) do something about it, or (B) shut the **** up, turn it off, and go out and get some exercise and fibre.

Really. Some people here, I think, act horrible. My only hope is that you write things so insensitive here because you need an outlet for anger. The alternative, that some of you are truly that horrible in "real life", is a little disturbing.

TAM

 

[gdnp]

You know I don't post in this section often, but some of the comments here kind of forces my conscience to be heard.

I think DeBakey will of course be remembered long after Snow. However, as others have said, Tony Snow was taken from his family and friends long before he should have. He leaves people behind who will miss him dearly. Many of these people, of course, were involved in the media, and therefore they will cover it, as they did with Russert, a fair bit more. How some of you are so incapable of empathy, or even sympathy, is unsettling.

I did not realize that this was a Tony Snow tribute thread, posted for the benefit of his family and friends. My apologies. To the family and friends of Tony Snow: I never met Tony, but I am sure he was a wonderful father and husband and will be sorely missed. My condolences for your loss.

If you don't like what the news covers, then (A) do something about it, or (B) shut the **** up, turn it off, and go out and get some exercise and fibre.

Good plan. I've been thinking of buying Fox news for a while now. I'll give Rupe a call.

Really. Some people here, I think, act horrible. My only hope is that you write things so insensitive here because you need an outlet for anger. The alternative, that some of you are truly that horrible in "real life", is a little disturbing.

What expression should a skeptic use for "holier than thou?"

Seriously, this is a skeptics forum. The probability that Tony Snow's friends and family are reading this thread is remote. The chance that they give a damn about what a bunch of wingnuts on the internet care is even more remote. So are we worried that Tony's spirit is sad because we are insulting him.

Jeez. And people are criticizing me for stating that a psychic that gives comforting words to a grieving woman may be doing some good.

 

[dudalb]

Here's a sign of the times. Tony Snow and Michael DeBakey die. Who gets top press? The guy who saved millions of lives with his medical inventions and procedures, or the guy about whom I shall say nothing out of respect for the dead? The answer is obvious.

There is also the Journalist Old Boys Network involved here.

 

[Wheezebucket]

If you're a friend or family member of Tony Snow and you're reading this right now - how's it going? Probably not well, if I had to guess. People dying is rarely fun. But for the record, since some people here are all whipped up in a self righteous tizzy - I didn't like Tony Snow's professional career. I referred to him as a douche on several occasions - and still will, on the rare occasions he comes up. I realize this may upset you - but I'm not particularly concerned about that, and I'm not going to pretend someone wasn't a douche just because they're six feet under. Maybe quit reading this forum and go back to mourning for a while, then come back and lay in to me or something. Tell me all about how great he was, I dunno.

Maybe in his off time Tony Snow was a god among men, loving his family and kids, saving kittens from trees and attending PTA meetings and just generally being an awesome, all around great guy. More likely there was some middle ground between god and douche that he occupied, like pretty much anyone who's ever lived - but who gives a good god damn about any of that, really? It's not like he served as the White House's official Cat Rescuer.

So try not to take it personally that some stranger on the internet doesn't like your dead husband/friend/father/employee - welcome to America in the year 2008. Cold? Maybe a little. Insensitive? Fair enough. Over the line? Not hardly.

 

[T.A.M.]

I did not realize that this was a Tony Snow tribute thread, posted for the benefit of his family and friends. My apologies. To the family and friends of Tony Snow: I never met Tony, but I am sure he was a wonderful father and husband and will be sorely missed. My condolences for your loss.

Good plan. I've been thinking of buying Fox news for a while now. I'll give Rupe a call.



What expression should a skeptic use for "holier than thou?"

Seriously, this is a skeptics forum. The probability that Tony Snow's friends and family are reading this thread is remote. The chance that they give a damn about what a bunch of wingnuts on the internet care is even more remote. So are we worried that Tony's spirit is sad because we are insulting him.

Jeez. And people are criticizing me for stating that a psychic that gives comforting words to a grieving woman may be doing some good.

I was not trying to be "holier than thou". I was trying to point out that skepticism and empathy/sympathy are not, nor should they ever be, mutually exclusive.

If you read my posts, you know full well where I stand on many issues, and I rarely if ever buy the snake oil. That said, I can rarely find an instance where I would say some of the things others (not you) have said above.

Yes I was "soapbox"ing, for sure, but I think it was called for.

gdnp the comment below is not aimed at anyone, including you...

The point was not that they might be reading, but that as human beings we should not have to pretend to be nice because a friend or family might be reading, but rather it should be the NATURAL thing to do. I guess you come across all types on the internet, so I should not be surprised that some people would have a "good riddance" attitude, but it is still unsettling. This man was not Hitler, he was not Saddam, he was not a child molester.

Sorry...maybe I went over the top, but it just struck a nerve.

TAM

 

[gdnp]

I agree that skepticism should be tinged with compassion and humor. Clearly, things get said on the internet that would not be said to a person's face. And nerves get touched and posts get made that on further reflexion come off as a bit harsher than one would have preferred.

I appreciate that you had the maturity not to respond in kind.

I guess our celebrity-dominated culture has always bored and annoyed me. DeBakey was really a giant of medicine. This man pioneered procedures that have saved millions of lives: there are almost half a million bypass graft procedures performed in the US each year. His death gets 1% the attention of Anna Nicole Smith, a woman whose great contribution to society was marring an old millionaire and inheriting his money.

Don't speak ill of the dead. It does seem wrong. Why? Out of respect for the survivors? Because they can't defend themselves? Because they can't reform themselves? Because we don't want people to speak ill of us? Because it will cause bad karma?

 

[BPSCG]

Joe McCarthy was one of Secretary of State Dean Acheson's bitterest foes.

When McCarthy died, reporters asked Acheson for a comment. Acheson replied, "De mortuis nil nisi bonum," sending the reporters scrambling for their Latin phrase books. Acheson was a class act, one who some here would do well to emulate.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I was not trying to be "holier than thou". I was trying to point out that skepticism and empathy/sympathy are not, nor should they ever be, mutually exclusive.

==Sorry...maybe I went over the top, but it just struck a nerve.

TAM

I am with you, Brother TAM. Well said.

DR

 

[Number Six]

I for one will miss Tony Snow. He was a very good guest on Bill Maher's show and seemed like a likable and intelligent man with a sense of humor and good looks.

Then again maybe he just seemed likable because of the contrast with Bill Maher.