Is there some "psi-wheel debunking for dummies" I could use?

[fkwebinash]

I have recently noticed the "psi-wheel" videos around Youtube: People who move a piece of paper over a needle with "ze powah of ze mind".

Now, it truly sounds like complete crap, but I can't actually think of any skeptical, rational explanation for it. I thought first of the hands moving the "wheel" with the air around it, but I don't know if that's correct.

Is there a webpage or someone who has debunked the psi-wheel claim that I can use for my knowledge?

Also, some videos:







My favorite one: Psiwheel under a glass bowl.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Video 2 and three, you can't see them blowing on the paper because you can't see the faces. Video 1 doesn't show his mouth. I just tried pulling up my t shirt over my face and could still blow through it. Video 4 is not available.
Randi exposed this kind of trick back in the 1960s by placing styrofoam bits around a bible that a guy was turning the pages with his breath.

 

[Steven Howard]

There was a longish thread, in the last year or two, where a poster was claiming this ability. After a bit of searching: Telekinesiologist now at JREF!

The general consensus seems to be that the paper balanced on the pin is inherently unstable, and will twist and wobble with only the slightest air current. Except for the third video in your post, where the guy is clearly starting and stopping the spinning with his hands, there's never any connection between the hand motions the person makes and when or how the paper spins. Nor is there any indication that the person knows when the paper will start or stop spinning, or whether it will spin clockwise or counter-clockwise. I've never seen one where the demonstrator announces ahead of time what he's going to do, like "It will stop spinning .... now" or "Now I'll make it spin the other way."

 

[PingOfPong]

If they could do this while it was sealed in a glass jar I would be impressed... by the trick.

 

[Jeff Corey]

I found the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc

 

[Garrette]

@ Jeff Corey: Your linked video shows Randi debunking James Hydrick, but there was no psi wheel involved; instead, Hydrick made the pages of a telephone book turn themselves. The packing peanuts demonstrated he was just blowing.

@ the OP: I don't know of any site specifically debunking psi wheels, but there are lots of things that need to be eliminated before resorting to a paranormal explanation. Among them are:

1. Air currents
2. Thermal currents (created when hands are brought close, even through a jar)
3. Jiggling the table
4. Static
5. Blowing on it (can be done even if covered by a jar or bowl that is not perfectly flush with the table)
6. Probably other stuff I've simply forgotten; it's been a long while since I engaged someone in this debate

But if you don't want to go through all that, point out that there is an exact duplicate (actually, a more impressive version) of this effect which sells at magic shops. You can get it for $90 here.

 

[steve s]

If they could do this while it was sealed in a glass jar I would be impressed... by the trick.

Uri Gellar did this trick on the Tonight Show (circa 1980) with an aquarium placed over the setup. Randi then came out and sprinkled the styrofoam shavings around the base of the aquarium. Suddenly Gellar's powers were absent.

Steve S.

 

[Jeff Corey]

@ Jeff Corey: Your linked video shows Randi debunking James Hydrick, but there was no psi wheel involved; instead, Hydrick made the pages of a telephone book turn themselves. The packing peanuts demonstrated he was just blowing...

As I pointed out in post #2, that's probably how this trick works.

 

[Garrette]

Uri Gellar did this trick on the Tonight Show (circa 1980) with an aquarium placed over the setup. Randi then came out and sprinkled the styrofoam shavings around the base of the aquarium. Suddenly Gellar's powers were absent.

Steve S.

Really? I don't recall this episode.

As I pointed out in post #2, that's probably how this trick works.

Okay. Sorry if that came across as snarky on my part. Mostly, though, it doesn't work with blowing. This is one of those effects, like dowsing, that has a lot of sincere believers.

 

[Jeff Corey]

... Mostly, though, it doesn't work with blowing. This is one of those effects, like dowsing, that has a lot of sincere believers.

I tried this trick with a balanced creased piece of paper balanced on a pin and didn't even need a short piece of straw to direct the flow from under my t shirt. That is my guess for the effect.
What's yours?

 

[Garrette]

I tried this trick with a balanced creased piece of paper balanced on a pin and didn't even need a short piece of straw to direct the flow from under my t shirt. That is my guess for the effect.
What's yours?

My guess as to how the effects were done in these particular videos? No idea; I haven't watched them. I have, however, watched dozens in the past and, like you, performed it myself. Some thoughts, though:

If the person is a sincere believer and is not intentionally cheating:

1. Heat from the hands causing thermal currents when brought close to the paper

2. Hand movement causing micro-breezes near the paper

3. Static electricity from the hands

4. Unknown and inconsistent air currents in the room

5. Vibrations in the table or floor


If the person is intentionally cheating :

Same as the above plus (taken conscious advantage of)

1. Surreptitiously blowing on it

2. Cheating assistant just off camera

3. The magic trick I linked to earlier

 

[kosai]

If they could do this while it was sealed in a glass jar I would be impressed... by the trick.

This one seems to be the best of the bunch... Of course it could be simply done in After Effects but if I could see it demonstrated in person, I'd agree it'd make a brilliant magic trick.



Apparently I can't get it to work in the thread it so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5NwRfMJgOQ

 

[Beerina]

If they could do this while it was sealed in a glass jar I would be impressed... by the trick.

Hence the 2-stage testing procedure of the JREF. If, by some miracle, someobody gets by the first test, which nobody ever has, they will have the videos to sit down and discuss so they can see what they must have missed, and how to prepare for it for the final test.

 

[Dr.Sid]

So there is still ne debunk for PSI wheel under jarr ? I can't come up with anything either.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

There was a longish thread, in the last year or two, where a poster was claiming this ability. After a bit of searching: Telekinesiologist now at JREF!

The general consensus seems to be that the paper balanced on the pin is inherently unstable, and will twist and wobble with only the slightest air current. Except for the third video in your post, where the guy is clearly starting and stopping the spinning with his hands, there's never any connection between the hand motions the person makes and when or how the paper spins. Nor is there any indication that the person knows when the paper will start or stop spinning, or whether it will spin clockwise or counter-clockwise. I've never seen one where the demonstrator announces ahead of time what he's going to do, like "It will stop spinning .... now" or "Now I'll make it spin the other way."

I think you called it accurately.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

This one seems to be the best of the bunch... Of course it could be simply done in After Effects but if I could see it demonstrated in person, I'd agree it'd make a brilliant magic trick.



Apparently I can't get it to work in the thread it so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5NwRfMJgOQ

The glass bowl has a very hard edge and the table is also very hard. That's not a good way to make an air seal.

The phone book page blowing guy mentioned above did the same thing using a fish aquarium. It actually makes the secret blowing trick easier to do.

 

[Nonpareil]

In the first video, he could just be tapping the underside of the table. It's a small paper; shouldn't take much to make it move.

 

[Dr.Sid]

I recommend trying it. Even the 'hot hands' method needs a lot of practice. That darned paper does not turn that easily. Tapping ? No way.

 

[davefoc]

There's an interesting (to me) conflict of the JREF rules regarding acceptable posting involved in this discussion. There is the rule about not revealing how magic tricks are done and there is a general goal for the forum to provide a place where paranormal and supernatural claims can be discussed with a skeptical slant.

I've been a fan of Randi for a long time and greatly respect him and in general try to follow the rules of the forum that his foundation is kind enough to provide. However I never liked this particular rule and I do find a little humor in the apparent hypocrisy involved with it.

That said, it appears that this is one of those topics where there is an exception to the rule about discussing how magic tricks are done that applies. Perhaps the it's only speculation exception is in effect or the it's a debunking discussion exception applies. (Neither of which are officially outlined in the rule).

So I will just add that the static electricity idea seemed like a good fit to me, but hot hands and subtle blowing seemed like other good possibilities. I'm not sure but it also in the range of plausible to me that the trick could be done most reliably with very small magnets. I might try out a few of these ideas.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

There's an interesting (to me) conflict of the JREF rules regarding acceptable posting involved in this discussion. There is the rule about not revealing how magic tricks are done and there is a general goal for the forum to provide a place where paranormal and supernatural claims can be discussed with a skeptical slant.

I don't think it's much of a conflict. This stunt is something passed off by believers in PK as a demonstration of paranormal powers. I've never seen a magician do something like this. It's not so much revealing a magician's secret as it is debunking people making a fraudulent paranormal claim.

If there is a magician performing something like this, I don't feel any misgivings about discussing various ways the trick is done because 1) it blurs the line between an honest magician and someone making a paranormal claim, and 2) as a magic trick, it's about as lame as the kind of things very small children do as magic tricks.