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Peru meteorite may rewrite rules - BBC

Zeuzzz

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7292863.stm
Peru meteorite may rewrite rules

A meteorite which ploughed into the Peruvian countryside last year should have shattered and dispersed long before reaching the ground.

That is the conclusion of scientists who have been examining samples of the space rock and the 15m-wide crater it dug out in Carancas last September.

The discovery of a water-filled hole, following reports of a fireball in the sky, made headlines around the world.

Now experts say the event challenges conventional theories about meteorites.

This has nothing to do with the mass panic that famously followed the impact; rather it has to do with the science of space impacts.

Usually, only meteorites made of metal survive the passage through Earth's atmosphere sufficiently intact to scoop out a crater. [....]

Some scientists, however, remain doubtful of either interpretation. After his conference talk, Dr Kenkmann was pressed by one scientist on whether a magnetic survey of the crater had been carried out to look for signs of an iron, rather than a stony, projectile.


Anyone think of any potential explanations for this?

They have not proved that it was actually a stony meteor yet, this is what the appearance looked like from initial reports, it only happened very recently. From the sound of what the people asking questions were saying they all seem convinced that it was a mainly Iron asteroid, but this has not been tested yet.

Another intersting observation is that this meteor seemed to be travelling faster than is possible by conventional theories.

Peter Schultz told the conference that the meteorite was travelling at about 24,000km/h (15,000mph) at the moment of impact - much faster than would be expected.


Maybe we dont know everything there is to know about meteors and comets and their relationship with planets magnetospheres. Maybe there are EM forces at work here in the atmosphere?
 
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One of the best potential solutions I have seen to this is by using the 'Electric Universe' model for meteors

EU proponents say that whether a meteor will shatter is not dependant on its speed, constitution and interaction with gasses in the Earths atmosphere alone. Whether a meteor will shatter is determined by its surface conductivity, and the value of the potential that it develops due to the difference in charge between the meteor and the surrounding air, as it rapidly travels through the voltage between the Earths surface and the upper atmosphere. Often called differential charging, and is a well observed phenomenon on spacecraft.

This explains why metal meteors often land intact, as due to high surface conductivity they develop less potential as the charge equalises to the local voltage far quicker. Meteors that are made of less conducting elements will retain their charge for longer, thus creating a substancial voltage which causes the meteor to shatter in mid air from electrical stress, as has been seen many times before when meteors seemingly explode.

some of their thoughts on comets, which i think could be highly relevant to this anomaly;

If the asteroid is highly conductive, ie made primarily out of conducting metals instead of the more normal rock constitution, the asteroid would adjust to the local voltage nearly instantly. So as it is moving towards the sun there is very little difference between the asteroids voltage and the surrounding voltage of the plasma. However in an asteroid made primarily out of rock with little conductive metal the charge would find it much harder to move in or out of the asteroid, and so the asteroid will retain its charge for a lot longer, and thus take a lot longer to equalize to the voltage of the surrounding space plasma as it moves through the e-field. A certain threshold value of equilibrium would occur between the potential of the comet and the surrounding plasma, ie, the charge never equalizes fully, the comet is always at a different voltage which would increase at the same rate as the surrounding space plasma. This would create a big voltage difference, which would attract current in the solar wind to create the coma plasma-sheath in glow mode which surrounds the comets nucleus.

All asteroids are made of metal and rock, so the extent of comets tails and comas may be determined by the conductivity of the surface and the general capacitance of the comets interior.
 
I thought the Peruvian meteor hole wasn't. I thought it was a underground gas explosion, hence no metallic meteorite found.
 
One of the best potential solutions I have seen to this is by using the 'Electric Universe' model for meteors

Basically, I think we should wait till the site has been fully explored before we try to solve a problem that may not be a problem at all.

But we could, of course, still look at these "EU" theories ("EU" is a poorly chosen acronym, since to a considerable portion of the populace EU stands for the European Union).

EU proponents say that whether a meteor will shatter is not dependent on its speed, constitution and interaction with gasses in the Earths atmosphere alone. Whether a meteor will shatter is determined by its surface conductivity, and the value of the potential that it develops due to the difference in charge between the meteor and the surrounding air, as it rapidly travels through the voltage between the Earths surface and the upper atmosphere.

This sounds very doubtful, because as a meteorite (a meteor is one that doesn't reach the surface) travels through the atmosphere, both the surface of the meteor and the surrounding air is glowing white hot. At this temperature, both the air and the meteorite material is highly ionized and thus conductive. Therefore the (cold) conductivity of the meteorite material should be insignificant.

Since the capacitance of any meteorite (except those that are planetoid-sized) with reference to Earth will be infinitesimal, the potential it develops is solely dependent on the potentials in the surrounding atmosphere and any frictional charging occurring during its passage.

Often called differential charging, and is a well observed phenomenon on spacecraft.

And which influence does it have on spacecraft?

This explains why metal meteors often land intact, as due to high surface conductivity they develop less potential as the charge equalizes to the local voltage far quicker.

No. Since the meteorite is effectively insulated from Earth except during the very moment of impact, its internal conductivity has no influence on its charge potential. In other words, while it is indeed conductive, it has nowhere to conduct any charge.

Meteors that are made of less conducting elements will retain their charge for longer, thus creating a substantial voltage which causes the meteor to shatter in mid air from electrical stress, as has been seen many times before when meteors seemingly explode.

No. The charge needed to make a solid object explode would be astronomical. Even in the most violent lightning strikes (involving billions of volts, millions of joules of charge), there are no observable disruptive effects from electrical stresses.

Now, if you were talking about temperature differences, you might be able to build a tenable thesis, but even here, any differences would probably drown in the pure mechanical differences between an iron meteorite and a rock one. The iron meteorite is mechanically stronger, and has a higher and more uniform melting point. Thus, it is far more resistant.

Hans
 
And on the comet text (which appears to be mainly technobabble):

If the asteroid is highly conductive, ie made primarily out of conducting metals instead of the more normal rock constitution, the asteroid would adjust to the local voltage nearly instantly. So as it is moving towards the sun there is very little difference between the asteroids voltage and the surrounding voltage of the plasma.

Which plasma?

However in an asteroid made primarily out of rock with little conductive metal the charge would find it much harder to move in or out of the asteroid, and so the asteroid will retain its charge for a lot longer, and thus take a lot longer to equalize to the voltage of the surrounding space plasma as it moves through the e-field.

This is total nonsense.

First of all, it ignores the fact that the charge of an object is only manifested on its surface (Faraday effect), so it does not move in or out of its interior, regardless of the conductivity of the object.

Secondly, even if there was a charge to exchange, and even if there was some influence from conductivity, even shortest period comets have periods of several years. Obviously, even in a very poor conductor, there would still be plenty of time or charge equalizing. And do remember that a vacuum is not an insulator.
A certain threshold value of equilibrium would occur between the potential of the comet and the surrounding plasma, ie, the charge never equalizes fully, the comet is always at a different voltage which would increase at the same rate as the surrounding space plasma. This would create a big voltage difference, which would attract current in the solar wind to create the coma plasma-sheath in glow mode which surrounds the comets nucleus.

More nonsense. As already explained, there is no reason any significant charge should build.

Even if some charge would build, the electrostatic field needed to deflect the highly energetic solar wind particles would be, again astronomical.

Even if some particles were deflected, it would not cause any visible corona effects. Earth deflects a large amount of solar wind particles (due to its magnetic field) but that does not produce any visible phenomenon at all (except zodiacal lights where those particles interact with the atmosphere).

All asteroids are made of metal and rock, so the extent of comets tails and comas may be determined by the conductivity of the surface and the general capacitance of the comets interior.

Complete nonsense. The observed shapes and properties of comet tails and comas are consistent with vapors and (macro)particles being boiled off the surface of the comet body, due to the heat from the sun.

Hans
 
Which plasma?


The solar wind.


First of all, it ignores the fact that the charge of an object is only manifested on its surface (Faraday effect), so it does not move in or out of its interior, regardless of the conductivity of the object.


really? I'm pretty sure differencial charging and other effects are well known.
Electrostatic charging phenomena of contaminated spacecraft thermal blankets - AIAA and ASME, Joint Thermophysics and Heat Transfer Conference, 5th, Seattle, WA, June

The build-up of static charge on spacecraft will occur naturally in order to minimize the potential difference between the spacecraft surfaces and the ambient plasma environment.

So as the comet is travelling through the E-field produced by the sun, it will reach a certain equilibrium where its charge in relation to the solar wind stay constant. This value will depend on the surface conductivity of the space craft, if it conducts electricity well then it will adjust very quickly to the voltage of the surrounding plasma, but if it has a low surface conductivity the charge will take longer to adjust, and so will build up to a higher amount.

http://www.eas.asu.edu/~holbert/eee460/spc-chrg.html
Absolute charging occurs when the satellite potential relative to the ambient plasma is changed uniformly. Differential charging occurs when parts of the spacecraft are charged to different potential relative to one another. Absolute charging is on the order of microseconds. Differential charging typically occurs over seconds to minutes because of capacitance considerations. The absolute charging of spacecraft surfaces (relative to ambient plasma) is not generally detrimental; rather it is the possible discharge effects from differential charging (see Fig. 4) which can disrupt satellite operations. Most of the undesired effects of charging are due to the discharge arcing, and include physical materials damage and EMI generation (and resultant transient pulses). Arc-discharges occur when the electric fields created by differential charging exceed breakdown potentials. The arcs are rapid (~ nanosec) and rearrange charge distribution by punch-through (internal dielectric breakdown), and by flashover between surfaces or between surfaces and space.[….]

Typically, differential charging has occurred after geomagnetic substorms, which result in the injection of keV electrons into the magnetosphere. While in eclipse, the spacecraft may negatively charge to tens of kilovolts.


Secondly, even if there was a charge to exchange, and even if there was some influence from conductivity, even shortest period comets have periods of several years. Obviously, even in a very poor conductor, there would still be plenty of time or charge equalizing. And do remember that a vacuum is not an insulator.


That would be true if you are not using the idea of EU proponents that the sun retains a substancial net charge, in which case the voltage the comet travels across is much larger than conventionally thought.



Even if some particles were deflected, it would not cause any visible corona effects. Earth deflects a large amount of solar wind particles (due to its magnetic field) but that does not produce any visible phenomenon at all (except zodiacal lights where those particles interact with the atmosphere).


Zodiacal lights are a direct consequence of electric currents incident on the poles of the Earth, i dont see what they have to do with EM effects and comets. ?

The coma would be caused by the currents that are travelling between the comet and the suurounding space plasma which are equalizing the voltage between the two. This current changes the mode of operation of the plasma into a visible glow mode, similar to the corona of the sun, and the ion tails of comets.
 
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Hi Zeuzz,
Did you read the entire article? Eespecially this:

Professor Schultz believes fragments from the Carancas meteorite, which crashed to Earth on 15 September last year, may have stayed within the speeding fireball until they struck the ground.
This might have been due to the meteorite's high speed. At the velocity it was travelling, fragments could not escape the "shock-wave" barrier which accompanies the meteorite's passage through the atmosphere.
 
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That would be true if you are not using the idea of EU proponents that the sun retains a substancial net charge, in which case the voltage the comet travels across is much larger than conventionally thought.
That would be true if Electric Universe had any validity. But elementary physics (maybe the EU proponents should learn some :rolleyes: ) tells us that the maximum charge on the sun is not substantial (less than 100 Coulombs).
 
About the charges on spacecraft: The quote you have is in the section of surface charging. Thus you are agreeing that the charge is on the surface.
However there is internal charging caused in orbiting spacecraft:
Internal (deep or bulk) dielectric charging is caused by high-energy electrons penetrating dielectric materials (e.g., printed circuit boards). These high-energy electrons are more likely found trapped within the earth's Van Allen radiation belts.
This would ony apply to comets if thay were made of dielectric materials and experiencing high-energy electrons.
 
That would be true if Electric Universe had any validity. But elementary physics (maybe the EU proponents should learn some :rolleyes: ) tells us that the maximum charge on the sun is not substantial (less than 100 Coulombs).



I have repeatedly stated why i used that paper, not because of their very rough theoretical estimate of what the charge could be, but because it demonstrates (contrary to popular scientific opinion) that the sun and other bodies can have a net charge and a resultnig E-field, a fact widely denied until very recently by most astronomers. They are only considering the charge created by the separation caused by protons and electrons in the suns gravitational field, and it is based on pure theory, no observations or confirmation is offered. Infact the authors make some very crude assumptions, some that could throw the value off by a significant amount.

I feel like i have said this 1000 times now, it is a useful paper because it does show that the Sun can, and probably does, exhibit a substancial net charge. And the people who wrote this paper seem amazed that the effect the suns electric field has been ignored by pretty much everyone apart from them when they address it in this paper.

http://www.aanda.org/index.php?opti...=129&url=/articles/aa/pdf/2001/24/aah2649.pdf
The purpose of this paper is remind of the existence of the global electrostatic field of the Sun and other stars, since it has been ignored by the authors of textbooks and review papers during the last several decades. Consequently, it has probably not been taken into account in the concerning works.


Weird that, maybe plasma cosmologists are correct when they say that standard atronomers largely ignore the effects of charge and E-fields in the cosmos due to the way they are taught about magnetism in space seldom with reference to the electrcal currents that produce them, and what the circuitry of these currents are.

Magnetism was known to exist in the middle ages. They knew, even back then, that a piece of iron could act on another - at a distance.

But, the early astronomers (like their modern brethern) were simply unaware of electrical phenomena. Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) had already mathematically explained the shape of the orbits of the planets when Isaac Newton published his treatise on gravity in 1687. Once that occurred, nothing more was needed to explain and predict the planetary motions that could be observed in those days. Everything was solved.

This, of course, was all long before Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) flew his kite in a thunder storm or James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) developed his equations relating magnetic and electric fields. But, electric fields were difficult to measure. And astronomers didn't know they needed to know about them. So, they never got included in the "accepted" model of how the solar system or the cosmos works.

That is why, to this day, most astrophysicists have never taken courses in electromagnetic field theory or experimental plasma discharges. They attempt to describe the actions of plasma by means of equations that are applicable only to fluids like water - and magnetic effects. This is what Alfven called 'magneto-hydrodynamics'. They do not realize, as he did, that the prefix 'magneto' implies 'electro'. And that, in turn, explains why astrophysicists blithely talk about stellar winds, vortex trails, and bow shocks instead of electrical currents in plasmas, electrical fields, z-pinches, and double layers.

- Anthony Peratt, Fellow of the IEEE, former scientific advisor to the U.S. Department of Energy, member of the Associate Laboratory Directorate of the Los Alamos National Laboratory


That paper then goes on to say:

The purpose of this paper is remind of the existence of the global electrostatic field of the Sun and other stars, since it has been ignored by the authors of textbooks and review papers during the last several decades. Consequently, it has probably not been taken into account in the concerning works.

[....]

More recent books and review papers on the solar corona or the Sun have generally omitted the effect of electric field (e.g. Parker 1963; Newkirk 1967; Gibson 1973; Athay 1976; Zirin 1988; Bird & Edenhofer 1990; Foukal 1990; Stix 1991; Low 1996). Since we have not found any paper mentioning a reason why the field should not exist, it seems that it was simply forgotten.


Whoops! Astronomers just forgot that space is filled with charge and E-fields, so naturally that makes it OK to completely leave the effects of these fields out of their models. :rolleyes:

I also like that paper as it shows that the conventional idea that everything in space is neutral to be wrong, quite substancial charge can build up, and produce quite substantial E-fields.


It is possible that the claim about the electrical neutrality of stars originates in a misunderstanding of net charge on a star. For example in the textbook by Glendenning (1997; p. 71), there is subsection entitled \Electrical Neutrality of Stars", in which the upper limit on the net charge is derived. The net positive charge has to be smaller than 10−36 qA Coulombs, where q is elementary electric charge (charge of proton) and A is number of baryons in the star. Hence, the author concludes that \the net charge per nucleon (and therefore the average charge per nucleon on any star) must be very small, essentially zero". Of course, we must agree that the charge per nucleon is negligible, even the charge of a small macroscopic volume of plasma is usually negligible. In this sense, we can speak about the neutrality. However, it is necessary to realize that the number A is very large (e.g. A 1057 for an one-solar-mass star) resulting in a signicant global charge of the star as a whole. If a reader is not attentive enough, he or she can easily accept the wrong concept of global neutrality of a star evoked by the title.


And some of their assumptions are outlined.

If the mass Mr is given in solar masses and charge Qr in Coulombs, then Qr = 77:043 Mr.

Inspecting the conditions assumed in the derivation procedure of the eld (3) in more detail, it is clear that the result is valid for an ideally quiet, perfectly spherical, non-rotating star. Obviously real stars do not have physical properties completely identical to ideal stars and this causes the instantaneous global charge of a given star to differ from the value Q of an ideal star. Nevertheless, the star permanently tends to set up this charging and we can assume it as a rough approximation (rough but much better than exact neutrality)


So the very theoretical nature of this paper would lead me to question the accuracy of their final value. If it was an observational paper showing evidence of this E-field, then that would be much better evidnce, but it really is just pure theory at this point. You would think that a subject like this would have more attention, but astronomers are not taught to think in terms of electricity. This demonstrates why there is so much resistance to EU ideas, even though adequate reasons to dismiss it are rarely given.


And it states that this effect of the suns E-field is very significant on the particle level, hundreds of times more powerful than gravity, which would seem consistant with the E-field producing the acceleration observed as the solar wind exits the sun, and is what EU proponents have been saying for years.

If we study the dynamics of an electrically charged elementary particle or ion, with mass mx and charge qx, then the electrostatic force acting between this particle and charge Qr is −qx(mp−me)=(2qmx) multiple of gravitational force. Thus, the magnitude of the force represents about 50% of the magnitude of gravity, if the star acts on proton, and it is about 918 times more intensive than gravity, if the star acts on electron.


This has been one of the outstanding problems in solar physics, and another outstanding problem is the coronal heating problem, that may also beable to be explained by taking into account the effect of the suns E-field on particles on its surface. But most astronomers dont even know that the sun has an E-field, let alone a net charge, they are not taught that as it is surprisingly ignored by most textbooks and university courses. This is becasue it is a relatively new concept.
 
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So stars "have a net charge and a resultnig E-field". Please present your calculation of the effect that a star with a net charge of 100C will have on an object. Take the subject of this tiopic as an example.
 
So stars "have a net charge and a resultnig E-field". Please present your calculation of the effect that a star with a net charge of 100C will have on an object. Take the subject of this tiopic as an example.


Hows about reading my last post and noticing that i do not agree with that very low value of 100 C, for reasons I thouroughly outlined. Can you actually see my post? care to comment on any of my observations?
 
At any moment there are about 2000 thuderstorms takingplace on the Earth. In total these are responsible for transferring negative charge down to the ground at 1800A. At this rate the groud should gain -1.6x108 C per day. If this gain in charge was not balanced by an eqivalent loss the ground would soon become so charged that lightning strikes would not be possible due to repulsion.

Given this, even if there is a slight delay in the positive charges escpaing back out (in a process which geologists admit is not fully understood yet) the Earth will set up a net charge due to this fact. You can also add to this E-field the effect that the earths gravitational field will have on separting proptons from their electrons, creating radial circles of small electric dipoles and setting up an E-field (the same effect thought to be causing the charge on the sun in the previously quoted paper)

So the charge on the Earth could be more than conventional theories have accepted, after all most astronomers completely ignore the effects of charge separation and E-fields in the cosmos, as admitted by the very paper you cited RealityCheck. This potential difference may be the cause of the huge ionized plasma sheath that encirlces the meteor as it travels through the atmosphere, which increases in size until the electrical charge and strain becomes too much, and the meteor explodes, just like most meteors do in the atmosphere.
 
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Hows about reading my last post and noticing that i do not agree with that very low value of 100 C, for reasons I thouroughly outlined. Can you actually see my post? care to comment on any of my observations?
Then do not link to papers that state:
If the mass Mr is given in solar masses and charge Qr in Coulombs, then Qr = 77:043 Mr.
where Qr is the global electrostatic charge inside the star-centric sphere of radius r.

If you have proof of a higher stellar charge then please present it.
 
...snipped lots of nonsense about terrestrial phenomenon that have nothing to do with the topic...
after all most astronomers completely ignore the effects of charge separation and E-fields in the cosmos, as admitted by the very paper you cited RealityCheck. This potential difference may be the cause of the huge ionized plasma sheath that encirlces the meteor as it travels through the atmosphere, which increases in size until the electrical charge and strain becomes too much, and the meteor explodes, just like most meteors do in the atmosphere.
The "huge ionized plasma sheath that encirlces the meteor as it travels through the atmosphere" is caused by the friction of entry. One wonders why all the spacecraft that reentered the atmosphere have not exploded like the meteor.
Most astronomers completely ignore the effects of charge separation and E-fields in the cosmos because these happen inside plasmas and have insignificant effects outside them. All astronomers that research plasmas do not ignore these effects.
A little tiny insignificant fact that all you plasma "cosmologists" seem to have forgotten from your introductory physics classes: Plasmas are ionized gases and thus have no overall charge. Charges are certainly separated within them (this is the primary definition of a plasma). There are electric currents, double layers and all sorts of other exciting structures within plasmas. But no matter how you separate the charges, the plasma will act as a neutral body from a distance, i.e. act as a gravitational body.
 
Then do not link to papers that state:

where Qr is the global electrostatic charge inside the star-centric sphere of radius r.

If you have proof of a higher stellar charge then please present it.


You can not prove anything in science, but various observations indicate that this is true. Such as the very model we are talking about now, comets seem to indicate this, and meteors, the acceleration of the solar corona, heating of the corona, solar inflows of particles into the sun against the dominant direction of the solar wind, the anoamlous field observaed around the sun by SOHO (picture)and other reasons that i have outlined before, like in this thread, and others. Add to this many of the other currently unexplained phenomenenon in solar and planetary physics and they are likely explained by applying the effects of charge and E-fields, of which there is a severe lack of in current astronomical models.

And incase you didn't see my post, where I outline why that paper is not very accurate and very theoretical, and I point out that its odd that there are no other papers that address this E-field field in any way, even though the presence of magnetic fields on the sun indicate a very large amount of electrical activity. Care to comment on that? the field observed by SOHO? You could just scroll up to it and read it, or here is a link to it.
 
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You can not prove anything in science, but various observations indicate that this is true. Such as the very model we are talking about now, comets seem to indicate this, and meteors, the acceleration of the solar corona, heating of the corona, solar inflows of particles into the sun against the dominant direction of the solar wind, the anoamlous field observaed around the sun by SOHO (picture)and other reasons that i have outlined before, like in this thread, and others. Add to this many of the other currently unexplained phenomeneon in solar and planetary physics and they are likely explained by the applying the effects of charge and E-fields, of which there is a severe lack of in current astronomical models.

And incase you didn't see my post, where I outline why that paper is not very accurate and very theoretical, and I point out that its odd that there are no other papers that address this E-field field in any way, even though the presence of magnetic fields on the sun indicate a very large amount of electrical activity. Care to comment on that? the field observed by SOHO? You could just scroll up to it and read it, or here is a link to it.

Why don't you just tell us the charge on the sun that has been found from these various observations?
 
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The "huge ionized plasma sheath that encirlces the meteor as it travels through the atmosphere" is caused by the friction of entry.


I am not denying that friction plays a role, it obviously would, especially the gasses that become flamable at that temparature. I am just trying to explain the genuine anomaly presented in this particular meteor impact with concepts consistant with EU theories, which seems one of the most viable solutions. If you can think of any other solutions, then please, share them.

One wonders why all the spacecraft that reentered the atmosphere have not exploded like the meteor.


This is infact highly consistant with this model, as the craft is made of metal, which has a high surface conductivity and so will not develop much of a voltage between it and the surrounding gas. This also explains the observation that metal meteors tend to land intact, but ones made of stone seem to explode in the atmosphere, as stone is less conductive and so will retain its charge for longer and produce a much higher voltage resulting in increased electrical stress.

A little tiny insignificant fact that all you plasma "cosmologists" seem to have forgotten from your introductory physics classes: Plasmas are ionized gases and thus have no overall charge.


This comepletely depends on what you are comparing the charge do in a differential way. you are seriously saying that everything is neutral in space?

Charges are certainly separated within them (this is the primary definition of a plasma).


yes, which can often give rise to a net charge on a body. How do you think that Anodes get charged up? by a similar process no doubt, and they certainly have a net charge and eminate an external E-field. The sun and other charged bodies are no different.

There are electric currents, double layers and all sorts of other exciting structures within plasmas. But no matter how you separate the charges, the plasma will act as a neutral body from a distance, i.e. act as a gravitational body.


It will act as a gravitational body for large objects, obviously, this is what is causing the meteor to fall towards Earth in the first place. The voltage around the Earth is what causes them to explode in the atmosphere, which is a secondary effect when compared to the force of gravity, but can still have direct effects in itself.

This opinion of everything in space being overall completely neutral is still open to dispute, it depends what you are saying it is neutral in relation to and other factors. I would ask you to find a reference for this this claim, as I see no basis for it.
 
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Why don't you just tell us the charge on the sun that has been found from these various observations?


I can't say exactly, the interplanetary potential has never been measured directly. Hopefully soon technology will be good enough to measure what it is. But from what i have seen from many effects that could be caused by it, it seems to be a lot larger than conventional theories allow. Certainly more than 100 C.

Evidence for double injections in scatter-free solar impulsive electron events - Geophysical Research Letters (quote from page 10)

The resultant change on inferred solar injection times is small compared to the dierence in injection times of low-energy electrons, high-energy electrons X - 10 WANG ET AL.: DOUBLE SOLAR ELECTRON INJECTIONS and type III bursts. This result is, of course, model-dependent; to our knowledge, the interplanetary potential has never been measured directly.
 

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