Jehovah's Witness Mother dies after refusing blood

[volatile]

A young mother died after giving birth to twins because her Jehovah's Witness faith prevented her from accepting a blood transfusion, it has emerged. Emma Gough, 22, from Telford, Shropshire, gave birth at the Royal Shrewsbury Hospital on 25 October.

From: BBC News

This enrages me. Some sanctimonious, Bible-thumping "spokesman" for this evil, twisted little cult is currently making a case for the refusal of transfusions on Biblical grounds, and I want to shake him by the lapels. I lived with a JW for a while, and it was her tortious take on religion that finally pushed me into fully-fledged atheism. The way this cult brainwashes young people and adults alike is truly terrifying, and...

Well, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I just needed to rant, and this seemed like an appropriate place.

 

[AgeGap]

Hi, I am a nurse working on a neurology/neurosurgery ward. I am aware of cases where possibly a worse outcome occurred due to refusal of blood products. It is very sad that people are left with unnecessary disabilities because of this end-of-the-world cult. I am also aware of situations where it has caused a family rift.
If a death occurs because of this, that poor person is just as dead as if they were to die from religious terrorism or drinking poisoned cool aid.

 

[volatile]

Hi, I am a nurse working on a neurology/neurosurgery ward. I am aware of cases where possibly a worse outcome occurred due to refusal of blood products. It is very sad that people are left with unnecessary disabilities because of this end-of-the-world cult. I am also aware of situations where it has caused a family rift.
If a death occurs because of this, that poor person is just as dead as if they were to die from religious terrorism or drinking poisoned cool aid.

Hear, hear.

The follow-up phone in has been pretty strongly against the JWs, but some have called in to say that we shouldn't "question this woman's faith".



It seems that her husband was given the chance to over-rule her signed form rescinding consent, and refused. This is cult-sanctioned murder.

 

[timhau]

It seems that her husband was given the chance to over-rule her signed form rescinding consent, and refused. This is cult-sanctioned murder.

The hell it is. It's cult-induced suicide. She was a legal adult, she made a choice that cost her life. It's stupid, but that's all.

When adults do this to themselves, I don't think there's anything anyone can do (except make a plea for common sense). Doing this to kids is the part where I draw the line.

 

[Soapy Sam]

A 22 year old made a decision that resulted in her death.
While I would disagree with her reasons, I respect her right to make that decision , no matter how foolish I think it was.

You know those threads here about "are memes real?"
Memes are real. And sometimes lethal.

 

[volatile]

The hell it is. It's cult-induced suicide. She was a legal adult, she made a choice that cost her life. It's stupid, but that's all.

When adults do this to themselves, I don't think there's anything anyone can do (except make a plea for common sense). Doing this to kids is the part where I draw the line.

Assisted suicide is illegal in this country - Doctor's cannot hasten anyone's path to death. Any doctor, or third party, who helps someone die, is guilty of at least manslaughter. Her husband, in this case, is that third party, if you ask me.

Furthermore, though she might have been a legal adult, she was one who was brainwashed, probably since childhood, by a twisted apocalypse cult who use strong psychological coercian techniques to ensure group conformity.

Murder - the actions of the cult led directly to her death.

Consider what would have happened were this a real suicide, and her husband had found her hanging by her neck but still alive. Had he not cut her down, he'd be guilty of manslaughter, as he had a very direct chance to save her but stood by and watched her die. This wasn't suicide, not in any normal sense.

 

[Blue Wode]

Perhaps even worse is the JW’s refusal to accept life-saving blood transfusions for their children. This is something which I’m reminded of on a fairly regular basis – i.e. before my children can participate in any educational excursion a parental agreement form has to be completed which contains the following two alternative statements of consent reflecting the wishes of the parents in respect of emergency dental, medical or surgical treatment:

I agree to my child taking part in this excursion. I agree to my child receiving emergency dental, medical or surgical treatment INCLUDING BLOOD TRANSFUSION/anaesthetic, as considered necessary by the medical authorities present.

I agree to my child taking part in this excursion. I agree to my child receiving emergency dental, medical or surgical treatment/anaesthetic, as considered necessary by the medical authorities present WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF BLOOD OR BLOOD PRODUCTS. I accept full legal responsibility for this decision

[Upper case used on the original statements]

You can only hope that nothing disastrous happens to the children of the second consent group.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Assisted suicide is illegal in this country - Doctor's cannot hasten anyone's path to death. Any doctor, or third party, who helps someone die, is guilty of at least manslaughter. Her husband, in this case, is that third party, if you ask me.

Questionable. She was legally competent to make the decision.

Furthermore, though she might have been a legal adult, she was one who was brainwashed, probably since childhood, by a twisted apocalypse cult who use strong psychological coercian techniques to ensure group conformity.

Opinion. The USMC use similar techniques. Is it "suicide by brain torture" if a Marine knowingly puts his life at risk and is killed?

Murder - the actions of the cult led directly to her death.

So who is responsible for the military deaths in Iraq? Seen any politicians being jailed for murder lately?

Consider what would have happened were this a real suicide, and her husband had found her hanging by her neck but still alive. Had he not cut her down, he'd be guilty of manslaughter, as he had a very direct chance to save her but stood by and watched her die. This wasn't suicide, not in any normal sense.

Agreed. It was self killing by stupidity, just like driving when drunk. You could make it illegal, but it wouldn't work.

 

[Puppycow]

Natural selection in action.

 

[volatile]

Questionable. She was legally competent to make the decision.

Perhaps. But "living wills" aren't legally binding in the UK - even if I wrote one saying I consented to a doctor injecting me with drugs so as to kill me, the doctor would still be legally culpable for my death. It seems the "faith" of this woman trumped all legal precedent (and indeed, a caller to Radio 5 pointed out that when she tried to commit suicide, she was sectioned). She would not have been allowed to refuse a blood transfusion on any grounds other than religion, as far as I can tell.

In any case, I would argue that her competence was compromised by the brainwashing activities of the cult she belonged to. Most of Jim Jones' followers were adults, but that doesn't excuse his actions.

Opinion. The USMC use similar techniques. Is it "suicide by brain torture" if a Marine knowingly puts his life at risk and is killed?

So who is responsible for the military deaths in Iraq? Seen any politicians being jailed for murder lately?

I do think there are serious ethical problems with the military recruiting vulnerable young kids with the promise of financial and educational rewards, actually, just as I have problems with cults recruiting vulnerable young people with promises of spiritual and communal rewards, but that's beside the point. You do make an interesting and pretty valid analogy, but I don't think it really holds - This woman's husband was given the chance to save her life but refused; a more appropriate analogue in military terms would be a soldier's wife refusing to agree to him being given body armour, or even refusing the end of his tour of duty - things that would definitely or almost definitely save their lives.

Agreed. It was self killing by stupidity, just like driving when drunk. You could make it illegal, but it wouldn't work.

Well, you're right there. I'd like to work on the cause rather than the symptom though, and that involves a concentrated effort to rid people of the banes of pseudo-religions like the despicable Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[volatile]

Natural selection in action.

Hardly. This woman's a victim of the JWs; there's nothing "natural" about it. Plus, she's already had babies, and left them in the care of her Witness husband and the sinister cult he belongs to. You think her death has ended the prorogation of these ideas?

 

[timhau]

Well, you're right there. I'd like to work on the cause rather than the symptom though, and that involves a concentrated effort to rid people of the banes of pseudo-religions like the despicable Jehovah's Witnesses.

Apart from the 'pseudo' part, I agree with that.

 

[volatile]

Apart from the 'pseudo' part, I agree with that.

Indeed. I think peseuo-religions like the JWs and Scientology are more pressing concerns than, say, Anglicanism, as the demonstrable harm is more immediate and of greater magnitude, and the roots to success are probably easier for inculcated individuals. But yes, a world free of all such stupefying belief systems would definitely be welcomed.

 

[Southwind17]

So who is responsible for the military deaths in Iraq? Seen any politicians being jailed for murder lately?

I don't think that's a valid comparison. I don't believe that death arising from legitimate military action of the type you allude to constitutes murder, whomesoever dies as a result.

 

[Puppycow]

Hardly. This woman's a victim of the JWs; there's nothing "natural" about it. Plus, she's already had babies, and left them in the care of her Witness husband and the sinister cult he belongs to. You think her death has ended the prorogation of these ideas?

Only in the sense that all preventable deaths are part of natural selection. It could be smoking or risky behaviour such as not wearing a seat belt or motorcycle helmet. Is it a silly belief? Yes, of course.

 

[linusrichard]

I've made bad decisions for stupid reasons before too. I'll leave the criticism of this lady to those of you who haven't.

 

[cnorman18]

--

I've made bad decisions for stupid reasons before too. I'll leave the criticism of this lady to those of you who haven't.

Oh, please.

It's wrong to criticize abject (and lethal) stupidity unless one is flawless and always has been?

Shut down the board, guys. No one may ever criticize anyone for anything.

(I know it's fashionable to be nonjudgmental and all, but if we were all THIS nonjudgmental, we'd still be living in trees.)

 

[linusrichard]

Oh, please.

It's wrong to criticize abject (and lethal) stupidity unless one is flawless and always has been?

Shut down the board, guys. No one may ever criticize anyone for anything.

(I know it's fashionable to be nonjudgmental and all, but if we were all THIS nonjudgmental, we'd still be living in trees.)

All right, all right. I changed my mind. My point was that I too have made stupid decisions for bad reasons that were within my rights to make and that only hurt myself. But then I remembered that this lady's decision also affected her infant twins who now have to grow up without a mother because of her stupidity. So, I retract my statement. If she had died under identical circumstances, except that there were no children involved, I would stand by my previous post, as clarified in this post.

EDIT: Actually, I might waffle even a little more. I think it would still even be fair to criticize the lady if she didn't have children, but I don't think I would do it in such harsh terms, because she wouldn't be hurting anyone but herself.

Or maybe I just was in a really nonjudgmental mood this morning when I wrote that, and now that I'm a little more awake, I'm a little more critical...

 

[articulett]

I don't think people are criticizing the lady-- I hear people criticizing the notion of faith. This women died, because her religion believes that people will go to hell if they get blood transfusions... they sincerely believe this... and lots of smart, trusting, people truly believe the stuff they've been taught by the people they trust. It doesn't occur to them to question such authority. It is tragic where we live in a time where faith is taught as a substitute for reason--a path to salvation-- a way towards "higher truth" and laws. That is what is sad. All people are subject to the belief systems of the government and religion of the communities they are born into. I hope with the internet, more people can think their way out. I think the whole notion that this life is some sort of nebulous test that determines your eternity is a twisted teaching... and it can't help but lead people to die (and kill) for "higher goals" that it would be "arrogant" to try to understand (afterall, you aren't supposed to question, God, right?).

To me, the women was a victim of her religion... so are the kids now... and the father who will be raising them without their mother-- religion can be a virulent meme that perpetuates itself at the expense of its hosts.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Assisted suicide is illegal in this country - Doctor's cannot hasten anyone's path to death. Any doctor, or third party, who helps someone die, is guilty of at least manslaughter. Her husband, in this case, is that third party, if you ask me.

Ah but you can do all kinds of nothing to shorten someones life legally. It is a result of putting a very strong emphasis on action vs inaction.