War Games on 9/11: Expecting them or involved with them?

MarkyX

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MarkyX
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Maybe I am going through a mental breakdown here because Canada had a positive temperature yesterday and it was actually interesting to look outside once again. I was just listening to the NORAD tapes it and was hoping someone can verify this for me.

A lot of 9/11 Deniers say that they were confused by the wargames going on to stall the "defenses" that would've otherwise prevented the attack on 9/11. I've been listening the NORAD tapes again, but does it seem to me that they weren't in the middle of any wargames whatsoever when 9/11 occured, but rather was merely expected them to start?

Or am I just really out of it because Canada is no longer a winter wonderland?
 
Happy spring!

NEADS was scheduled to begin their exercise at 9:00 a.m. Instead, they got word of flight 11's hijacking, and so didn't run any exercises on 9/11. The conspiracists would have us believe that NEADS went ahead and ran their exercises while the hijackings and suspected hijackings and combat air patrols were going on: just ask the idiots on the Loose Change forum, including Dylan Avery. Some of them really believe that.
 
I think Paul Greengrass's United 93 clears what happened at NORAD prefectly. Probably why the truthers hate it so much.
 
Gravy said:
Happy spring!

NEADS was scheduled to begin their exercise at 9:00 a.m. Instead, they got word of flight 11's hijacking, and so didn't run any exercises on 9/11. The conspiracists would have us believe that NEADS went ahead and ran their exercises while the hijackings and suspected hijackings and combat air patrols were going on: just ask the idiots on the Loose Change forum, including Dylan Avery. Some of them really believe that.
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Righto, I knew it was something along those lines. Listening to the NORAD tapes, it's pretty clear that they were simply waiting for the exercises to begin and weren't in the middle of anything yet

So I am guessing that this is another twist of words from 9/11 Deniers. Nice.
 
While that's certainly part of the argument they raise (e.g., when they claim that air traffic controllers had a tough time finding the hijacked planes due to "inserted" phony planes for the war games), they also say that the games pulled planes away from the East Coast, resulting in the situation where there were only four fighters available that day.
 
Gravy is quite correct. The exercise had not commenced when the first call came in regarding AA11.

Furthermore, the tapes indicate that while clarification was requested from each individual as they learned of the hijacking, there was no confusion.

Throughout the tapes, however, there is a degree of "gallows humour" from the NEADS staff that references the exercise - for example "How about we call the exercise off", and "I think this is an input". In context, these comments are clearly not serious or literal, however I've seen CTers claim they are evidence of confusion.

Mostly, however, CTers simply invent things. There were no false blips, the exercises did not involve domestic hijacked airliners crashing into buildings, they did not involve any aircraft whatsoever, the list goes on...

I think Richard Meyers, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, summed it up perfectly:

These are command post exercises; what that means is that all the battle positions that are normally not filled are indeed filled; so it was an easy transition from an exercise into a real world situation. It actually enhanced the response; otherwise, it would take somewhere between 30 minutes and a couple of hours to fill those positions, those battle stations, with the right staff officers.

Source
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-Gumboot
 
The supposed standown of NORAD was not needed to allow the planes to reach their targets, because there were no planes to intercept. The real standown occurred at 9:45 a.m. when Ben Sliney ordered all planes out of the sky, including military.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a945slineyorder#a945slineyorder

This is just prior to WTC2 being demolished. Immediately after WTC1 is demolished, at 10:31, flights are allowed to resume.

Why would they do this?
 
gumboot said:
..."I think this is an input"...
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It's also important to note that that quote came from some unidentified airman on the CP floor - I guess it was an ID tech because he was in the audio loop but not identified in the transcript. The comment, as gumboot alludes, was to watching UA175 strike the south tower on CNN and not from any sitrep or order from within the battle chain.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
The supposed standown of NORAD was not needed to allow the planes to reach their targets, because there were no planes to intercept. The real standown occurred at 9:45 a.m. when Ben Sliney ordered all planes out of the sky, including military.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a945slineyorder#a945slineyorder

This is just prior to WTC2 being demolished. Immediately after WTC1 is demolished, at 10:31, flights are allowed to resume.

Why would they do this?
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*cough*

Wait a minute... BOTH WTC1 and 2 were demolished? You're not suggesting a controlled demolition, are you?

Wow, I guess I never thought that would be possible... I'm not sure that it makes sense. Do you have any evidence to corroborate this claim?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
The supposed standown of NORAD was not needed to allow the planes to reach their targets, because there were no planes to intercept. The real standown occurred at 9:45 a.m. when Ben Sliney ordered all planes out of the sky, including military.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a945slineyorder#a945slineyorder

This is just prior to WTC2 being demolished. Immediately after WTC1 is demolished, at 10:31, flights are allowed to resume.

Why would they do this?
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The Military was not, NORAD was still flying.

You are too challenged, it was done to make sure all the pilots had control of all 4000 flight over the country. The air was cleared and all had to land. NORAD was still on patrol.

NO flight flew for days after 9/11 except Military/LawEnforcement/CAP, you are so full of BS I will have to move out of CA. How can you get every single thing about 9/11 wrong? Next you will say it was so the Beam Weapon would work.
 
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Another quick question, related to NORAD. I haven't really researched this one myself and didn't mention it in either "Frequently Stupid Theories" or Screw Loose Change - Not Freakin' Again edition, but what about the shredding of the NORAD tapes? What was the intention behind it and was it legal?
 
Here is an idea. Lets recruit TS1234 to fight our fight against the "drone planers", and recruit MM to fight our fight against the "no-planers".

We can then just sit back and watch...lol

TAM:)
 
Just to amplify gumboot's correct response -- one important point is that the scheduled wargames guaranteed that important officers and decision makers were all at their posts when the attacks started.

In that respect, the planned exercises actually improved NORAD response, rather than interfered with it. Anybody who's ever worked critical operations will know exactly what I'm talking about.

As usual, the Troothers have it not just wrong, but 100% wrong.
 
T.A.M. said:
Here is an idea. Lets recruit TS1234 to fight our fight against the "drone planers", and recruit MM to fight our fight against the "no-planers".

We can then just sit back and watch...lol

TAM:)
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You, sir, have an evil sense of humour.
I like it!
 
MarkyX said:
Another quick question, related to NORAD...what about the shredding of the NORAD tapes? What was the intention behind it and was it legal?
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There are two issues here. One was an FAA manager destroying an ATC audio loop recording to protect the privacy of on-duty controllers at the request of the ATC union representative. The other was NORAD radar data tapes that were deemed unrecoverable by NORAD but were given to the Commission and recovered by a private-sector contractor. I'll dig up some links later.
 
Cylinder said:
There are two issues here. One was an FAA manager destroying an ATC audio loop recording to protect the privacy of on-duty controllers at the request of the ATC union representative. The other was NORAD radar data tapes that were deemed unrecoverable by NORAD but were given to the Commission and recovered by a private-sector contractor. I'll dig up some links later.
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The FAA tape was made by an ATC supervisor and consisted of post-incident interviews with controllers. It wasn't a recording of the actual incidents. While he shouldn't have shredded it, since it contained the most immediate recollections of events, the controllers were subsequently interviewed in an official capacity by the FBI.

Jason Bermas radio interview, 5/24/06:

Why did the FAA DESTROY THEIR TAPES? I mean, they literally destroyed their tapes. They guy went through, got all the tapes, put it through a shredder and then threw them away in different bins, because they didn't want what happened to come out. I mean, the 'Incompetence theory" only goes so far. (Laughs)
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Washington Post, May 7, 2004:
The report found that an FAA manager tape-recorded an hour-long interview with the controllers just hours after the hijacked aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania. His intention was to provide the information quickly to the FBI. But months after the recording, the tape was never turned over to the FBI and another FAA manager decided on his own to destroy the tape, crushing it with his hand, cutting it into small pieces and depositing the pieces into several trash cans, the report said.
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