Evangelicals condemn Torture

Dancing David

Penultimate Amazing
Dancing David
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
39,700
Location
central Illinois
I have read on yahoo and another of other places that the NAE, National Association of Evangelicals, the same ones that just had thier leader resign in a 'gay sex scandal', have now come out saying it is wrong for the US to use torture.

They still are opposite me in many ways but , this time, way to go!
 
Dancing David said:
I have read on yahoo and another of other places that the NAE, National Association of Evangelicals, the same ones that just had thier leader resign in a 'gay sex scandal', have now come out saying it is wrong for the US to use torture.

They still are opposite me in many ways but , this time, way to go!
Click to expand...
This is rather like me standing on a roof top and preaching loud and long about how bad child molestation is. Rather easy to be for that position, don't you think? I do agree with you that it is a positive sentiment. One almost asks "why does this need to be said?" when such an utterance is made.

Platitudes for fifty, Alex. :p

DR
 
How sad that evangelicals would have to come out in oposition to torture...one would have thought that was holy writ. I guess I missed the "attache electodes onto the genitals of others as you would have electrodes attached to your genitals" part of the Sermon on the Mount.
 
Darth Rotor said:
This is rather like me standing on a roof top and preaching loud and long about how bad child molestation is. Rather easy to be for that position, don't you think? I do agree with you that it is a positive sentiment. One almost asks "why does this need to be said?" when such an utterance is made.

Platitudes for fifty, Alex. :p

DR
Click to expand...

Do you have family on the roof with you? It seems to me that yelling from the roof is sort of the norm for many churches.
 
Dancing David said:
I have read on yahoo and another of other places that the NAE, National Association of Evangelicals, the same ones that just had thier leader resign in a 'gay sex scandal', have now come out saying it is wrong for the US to use torture.

They still are opposite me in many ways but , this time, way to go!
Click to expand...

Of course they condem torture!

Just about everybody condems torture, then again, just about everyone who engages in torture is careful to define torture in such a way that what they do is not actually torture in order to say "we don't torture".

For example, when now AG Gonzales wrote up the famous 'torture memo' he essentially defined torture as something so bad that the person would rather be dead and/or that it actually kills them.

Go figure!
 
Dr Adequate said:
Your skepticism, I take it, has taken the form of looking at other polls to see if they get similar results?

I forgive you entirely for finding out that I'm right.
Click to expand...
Sorry Dr A, but I am not as confident as you are that the poll reflects your comment about "most people."
1,961 U.S. adults (aged 18 and over). Figures for age, sex, race, education, region and household income were weighted where necessary to bring them into line with their actual proportions in the population. Propensity score weighting was also used to adjust for respondents’ propensity to be online.

In theory, with probability samples of this size, one could say with 95 percent certainty that the overall results have a sampling error of plus or minus 2 percentage points of what they would be if the entire U.S. adult population had been polled with complete accuracy. Unfortunately, there are several other possible sources of error in all polls or surveys that are probably more serious than theoretical calculations of sampling error. They include refusals to be interviewed (nonresponse), question wording and question order, and weighting. It is impossible to quantify the errors that may result from these factors. This online sample was not a probability sample.
Click to expand...
So no, I don't buy your conclusion that this poll was a revelation of "the true" sentiments of Most Americans(your words), as of the date in 2005.

Had you said "many people" I'd not have any quibble, and would agree with you.

DR
 
Last edited:
Darth Rotor said:
Please forgive my skepticism on the veracity of that poll.

DR
Click to expand...

But there is alot of talk about when can torture be used and what exactly constitutes torture. There is alot of public debate and it is not as one sided an issue in that debate as child molstation.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Agreed.

DR
Click to expand...

Then condemming any and all torture is not the same as condemming childmostation because there are a significant number of people who do not condem all torture. Otherwise there would not be the sort of debate that there is on the issue.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Then condemming any and all torture is not the same as condemming childmostation because there are a significant number of people who do not condem all torture. Otherwise there would not be the sort of debate that there is on the issue.
Click to expand...
Nope. The original post rationale went along this very simple line.

"We are against this generally agreed Bad Thing(TM)."

Stand on roof and yell "I am against a different, generally agreed "Bad Thing(TM)."

Two Bad Things(TM) need not be identical to be similar, which is what the two positions are, similar, like, not identical.

If you want to try and read more into it, that's on you.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
Nope. The original post rationale went along this very simple line.

"We are against this generally agreed Bad Thing(TM)."

Stand on roof and yell "I am against a different, generally agreed "Bad Thing(TM)."

Two Bad Things(TM) need not be identical to be similar, which is what the two positions are, similar, like, not identical.

If you want to try and read more into it, that's on you.

DR
Click to expand...

My comment was more on pointing out the end of the silence on the issue. I am not sure I had a rationale other than that. I am not sure torture is universaly condemned, aside from the debate over what constitutes torture. I seem to recall a poll on this forum where it was very split up and not universal. There was the wohole is torture ever useful series of threads.

I take a strong line, I would not want people beating prisoners, or causing them to have hypothermia, I feel that the whole loud music issue is abusive if not torture. I would define torture as the use of pain, subjugation and intimidation taken all together. So beating a prisoner in a fit of rage would not qualify, unless the other two components were in place.

Water boarding is torture.

Just my two cents.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Nope. The original post rationale went along this very simple line.

"We are against this generally agreed Bad Thing(TM)."

Stand on roof and yell "I am against a different, generally agreed "Bad Thing(TM)."

Two Bad Things(TM) need not be identical to be similar, which is what the two positions are, similar, like, not identical.

If you want to try and read more into it, that's on you.

DR
Click to expand...

The problem is that there are people coming out as being not against torture in all cases.
 
ponderingturtle said:
The problem is that there are people coming out as being not against torture in all cases.
Click to expand...
Why is that a problem? It may differ with your or my stance, but I fail to understand it being "a problem." Disagreement is not "a problem," it is a design feature of our system.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
Why is that a problem? It may differ with your or my stance, but I fail to understand it being "a problem." Disagreement is not "a problem," it is a design feature of our system.

DR
Click to expand...

It means that not everyone thinks torture is bad. So that you can not assume that someone thinks torture is bad because there are enough people who support it in some situations.

So it is meaningful to condem all torture.
 
ponderingturtle said:
It means that not everyone thinks torture is bad. So that you can not assume that someone thinks torture is bad because there are enough people who support it in some situations.

So it is meaningful to condem all torture.
Click to expand...
This is going nowhere. You are welcomed to continue on that path, I have no further interest in that destination. Drive safely. :)

DR
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom