Killtown vs. 911debunker debate has begun!

Cut-and-paste should fix that? Weeeell... Yes, I know he will just deny it anyway, but it will give the crowd a laugh. :)
 
That wreckage which was found 300 metres away? Was it engineparts or an entire engine?
IF it were an entire engine, then it's possible that the breakaway safetypins in the engine simply gave way under the pressure.
Or are these only standard on some types of boing aircraft? (Brainfart based on a recent airing of the Amsterdam Aircrash where a faulty breakaway pin caused a Boing-something to crash into an appartment complex).
 
What does he think it would prove if it was an intact engine. Doesn't he believe the scene was staged? If it was staged why would they put one large piece of the engine or a mostly intact engine where it was found?
 
eeyore1954 said:
What does he think it would prove if it was an intact engine. Doesn't he believe the scene was staged? If it was staged why would they put one large piece of the engine or a mostly intact engine where it was found?
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From what he's said in the past:
Yes.
They screwed up and put it in the wrong place.
 
R.Mackey said:
I'm still trying to figure out where Val McClatchey's favorite stalker pulled that one out from... It appears he doesn't understand any units at all.

The only thing I can figure is that somewhere, somebody read that 1 short ton = about 850 kg, and he totally transposed that in his head.

Hey, at least he asked for someone to correct him this time. That's real progress where this golden boy is concerned.
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A short ton is over 900 kg, so even bending over backwards to help the poor schlub doesn't work.

Does anyone have the specs on engine weight? I used to ship P&W engines for much smaller aircraft and those were aready 400/500 kg, IIRC (it was many years ago). I'm guessing a 757 engine is going to be a few tons (tonnes), at least.
ETA: DIDN'T SEE CHIPPY'S MENTION THAT IT WAS THE ENGINE FAN..... never mind!

And whether it's half a ton or two tons or five, why would it be an astounding issue if it was to skid, bounce or roll 200 metres, downhill? Gara Ypremian could kick a football, with friendly bounces 85 metres! Maybe we can get the construction paper dude to do the calcuations of the thrust created by Ypremian's leg, divided by the speed at which the 757 crashed over the square root of the weight of the engine divided by the weight of a regulation NFL football.
 
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Flight 93 was a Boeing 757-222. Wiki stats that there were four different model engines used in the 757 line:
Rolls-Royce RB211, PW2037, PW2040, PW2043 turbofan engines

The RB211 shows the following:
RB211 Engine Family : Leading Particulars
Engine|Static Thrust (lbf)|Basic Engine Weight (lb)|Length (in)|Fan Diameter (in)
RB211-22B|42000|9195|119.4|84.8
RB211-524B|50000|9814|119.4|84.8
RB211-524B4|50000|9814|122.3|85.8
RB211-524C2|51500|9859|119.4|84.8
RB211-524D4|53000|9874|122.3|85.8
RB211-524D4-B|53000|9874|122.3|85.8
RB211-524G|58000|9670|125|86.3
RB211-524H|60600|9670|125|86.3
RB211-524G-T|58000|9470|125|86.3
RB211-524H-T|60600|9470|125|86.3
RB211-535C|37400|7294|118.5|73.2
RB211-535E4|40100|7264|117.9|74.1
RB211-535E4B|43100|7264|117.9|74.1

PW engine info:
Engine Characteristics Fan tip diameter: 78.5 inches Length, flange to flange: 141.4 inches http://www.pw.utc.com/StaticFiles/Pratt & Whitney/Assets/Documents/commercial_2003_pw2000.pdf and http://www.pw.utc.com/vgn-ext-templ...toid=d9e61a157e6db010VgnVCM1000000881000aRCRD


Based on this news release: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/q2/nr_020606g.html I don't believe we need to look at the PW engines. It appears that prior to 2002, all 757 models used the RR engines.
 
:mad: :mad: :mad:
posting from work and I forgot my password to that forum otherwise I'd have posted the corrections.So even if the smallest engine (7264 lbs)listed above was used, and the piece found in the water was 2000 pounds, then it was only 27% of the entire engine by mass.
 
Don't forget he quoted you saying you said it was one ton, when you said "almost" ;)
 
I see this as a prime example of the troofer method of attempted debate.

Never presenting any real evidence. Simply asking questions.

Using the Socratic method is not debate and unfortunately for the troofers that strategy is hamstrung because the answers they are trying to exact are not the answers they will ever get.

Troofer: Do you believe that a 4320 lb framastan could really have landed 335.228 meters from the impact?

Desired Answer: No, I guess not. So it must have been planted evidence.

Real Answer: Yes, aircraft impact debris including large pieces is often scattered over even larger areas.
 
Spindrift said:
I see this as a prime example of the troofer method of attempted debate.
Never presenting any real evidence. Simply asking questions.
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the difference being here though is that killtwat has to face the same tactic. in answering his oppositions questions he has to come up with good quality evidence or hopefully he will be ripped apart. i'm looking forward to it :-]

BV
 
bonavada said:
where can i read of the debate rules as applied to this debate?

TIA

BV
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Apparently there are no rules at all. I was hoping that by setting up a format, Killtown would be forced to definitively say something rather than ask a billion questions that will make everyone hate this debate.

He's already made two mistakes, though, so I guess I have a good head start for the time being.
 
How pathetic! Chippy has to run back here and get help from all of you. I doubt Killtown needs to do that.
 
rebel said:
How pathetic! Chippy has to run back here and get help from all of you. I doubt Killtown needs to do that.
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For the record, none of what I have said in the debate was at all influenced by what anyone said here. Would you care to point out who gave me the Pratt and Whitney engine fact sheet, for example? Or would you point out who helped me figure out that Killtown used a faulty source in his opening statement?

If you really feel strongly enough that I'm running here for help, then I'll ask the administrators to close this forum. Trust me, I'm doing this entirely on my own.
 
rebel said:
How pathetic! Chippy has to run back here and get help from all of you. I doubt Killtown needs to do that.
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Why are you here?
Why don't you state your beliefs?

Killtown doesn't need help because he doesn't bother to burden himself with facts. He simply makes **** up.
 
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