I'm too smart - Split from "Evolution Major Vanishes..." thread

[Jimbo07]

I'm a stupid dumbass!

No, this isn't me crying out for attention, it's the set-up for this thread. In the 'Evolution Major' thread, there was this statement:

Our society sends mixed messages about things like intellect and learning. A person can be mocked by others both for being "stupid" and for being "smart."
A person can be derided for lack of education, and for seeking education.

I'm here to say that the same person can be mocked for both. I'm the one who thinks I'm the dumbass. I know exactly what some of my intellectual limitations are. A friend once told me, regarding chess, "boy you suck at this." Considering the discipline I'm in, my complete lack of native talent for math and logic are severe impediments. Regardless...

Lately I've been coming across the exact opposite problem from potential friends/friends of my wife. Apparently I use a pretentious vocabulary. A good buddy told my wife that I use, 'too many syllables.' So what's the problem?

Perhaps, because I'm not overly intelligent, my attempts to use an expanded vocabulary are misplaced and sometimes... well... incorrect. That would be fine, if I was actually wrong. A lawyer friend recently tried to correct me on the use of a word. I looked it up and found that the sense I had used it in was actually correct! I later couldn't resist a, 'neener-neener.'

... okay... whew... enough about me and my personal anger...

This is political precisely because society constantly deals with the allocation of scarce resources. There are calls in local communities to make the universities responsive to the needs of said local community (although it's a very thin smokescreen to mean in a couple of specific cases, 'the business community'). If I were cynical, I'd say that a bunch of ignorant business people want to axe the arts, which they don't understand in the first place. Certainly IDers and their ilk want to chip away at legitimate science. And finally, at my local level, people don't want to be made to feel stupid.

So what to do? How do we resolve the inherent recognition (which few will deny) of the value of education, without also mocking the educated? Do we simply have to accept that the vast majority don't like extremes (neither too stupid, nor too smart)? Is education too often confused with intelligence? I don't know, but as a grown adult, I still feel like I'm in the schoolyard with people hating people...

 

[slingblade]

I'm a stupid dumbass!

First off: no, you're not.

No, this isn't me crying out for attention, it's the set-up for this thread. In the 'Evolution Major' thread, there was this statement:

Our society sends mixed messages about things like intellect and learning. A person can be mocked by others both for being "stupid" and for being "smart."
A person can be derided for lack of education, and for seeking education.

I'm here to say that the same person can be mocked for both.

I agree.

I'm the one who thinks I'm the dumbass. I know exactly what some of my intellectual limitations are. A friend once told me, regarding chess, "boy you suck at this." Considering the discipline I'm in, my complete lack of native talent for math and logic are severe impediments. Regardless...

As much as I idolize Heinlein, I took it rather personally when he said, paraphrasing: "Anyone who can't do algebra is sub-human." Ouch. I got a D in pre-algebra, but I finished my maths with a B...after I had a course in logic, which is also algebraic. But I have no native talent in it, either. What I learned was hard-won, trust me. Hey, at least now I'm fully human.

Lately I've been coming across the exact opposite problem from potential friends/friends of my wife. Apparently I use a pretentious vocabulary. A good buddy told my wife that I use, 'too many syllables.' So what's the problem?

As you said earlier: people don't like to feel stupid (though I'm not sure I can "make" anyone feel that, unless they've already decided it for themselves). I once was told by my boss (in a bar/restaurant) that I was making everyone self-conscious with my huge vocab, and could I please "dumb it down" a bit. Um, okay. They certainly won't notice my suddenly sounding patronizing, I'm sure.....

Perhaps, because I'm not overly intelligent, my attempts to use an expanded vocabulary are misplaced and sometimes... well... incorrect. That would be fine, if I was actually wrong. A lawyer friend recently tried to correct me on the use of a word. I looked it up and found that the sense I had used it in was actually correct! I later couldn't resist a, 'neener-neener.'

... okay... whew... enough about me and my personal anger...

I don't blame you for the "neener-neener" a bit! I once, a long time ago, used the word "exorbitant" and was told there was no such word. Yet I knew there was. It was very irritating, and I didn't have a dictionary handy. Nowadays I overhear the occasional argument about how to spell the bloody thing: with or without the h? No one seems able to agree, for long....

This is political precisely because society constantly deals with the allocation of scarce resources. There are calls in local communities to make the universities responsive to the needs of said local community (although it's a very thin smokescreen to mean in a couple of specific cases, 'the business community'). If I were cynical, I'd say that a bunch of ignorant business people want to axe the arts, which they don't understand in the first place. Certainly IDers and their ilk want to chip away at legitimate science.

My school recently hired a new president, who said he planned to use the "business model" to make the school more efficient. He then proceeded to decimate the English and Art departments, while expanding the Business department. Tellingly, the only Master's program my school currently offers is an MBA. The Edu department is trying now to set up a Master's in education, which they plan to structure as "theory only." I see that as dangerously close to wooism, as edu theories change almost daily, it seems. If you perform no practical application of theory, how do you even know if it's sound or valid and worth pursuing?<--opinion alert; YMMV.

And finally, at my local level, people don't want to be made to feel stupid.

Of course they don't. But if the mere existence of a highly intelligent person is enough to make one "feel stupid," how is that the other person's fault or doing? Jeez, I dunno...maybe if some folks would actually crack a book now and then....I wasn't born with this vocab, and neither were you, or anyone else. I acquired mine, painstakingly, over 45 years. I'm a lexophile. I love words. I collect them. Some folks collect stamps. *shrugs*

So what to do? How do we resolve the inherent recognition (which few will deny) of the value of education, without also mocking the educated? Do we simply have to accept that the vast majority don't like extremes (neither too stupid, nor too smart)? Is education too often confused with intelligence?

I guess it is. I don't consider myself all that intelligent. I feel I lack the ability to originate ideas. I can take your ideas and go to town with them, improving or expanding them, but I have a hard time creating my own. My memory, now...that's an asset. I can remember just about anything I read. I'm great at Jeopardy. But it's not exactly marketable, unless one is Ken Jennings....

I guess I feel that being jealous of someone's intellect is futile, because we don't really choose what we're born with, but we can choose to improve what we have. If one doesn't choose to take advantage of certain opportunities, how is that anyone else's fault? I know there are various considerations to be made: some folks have learning differences, like dyslexia, and need more help with reading and writing. Those opportunities are not necessarily available to all. But in a general sense, there's no reason not to read. Books are cheap if you buy them used or haunt garage sales.

It's like being wealthy. Some of us are born with money, but many more of us have to work hard for it. I'd love more money, but I'm not willing to do the work it takes to be "rich." I am willing to do the work it takes to be "comfortable," however, and my going to college will enable that. I had to make that choice, so I did. Some folks are born into a generations-long cycle of poverty, and getting out of that can be really, really hard.

But if I'm able to do the work it takes to earn more money, yet not willing, I can't really justify my jealousy at those who have more than I do because they were willing to do the work. I guess I think we should feel the same about intellect/education. But we're people, so we don't.

I don't know, but as a grown adult, I still feel like I'm in the schoolyard with people hating people...

High school never ends. I may have that tattooed on my arm, one day....

 

[Jimbo07]

But if the mere existence of a highly intelligent person is enough to make one "feel stupid," how is that the other person's fault or doing? Jeez, I dunno...maybe if some folks would actually crack a book now and then....I wasn't born with this vocab, and neither were you, or anyone else.

This is exactly the sort of smart-ass response that I've wanted to give someone to their face, but have never had the guts...

It's remarkably hard, in all seriousness, to tell someone right to their face that you genuinely believe that they are ignorant, especially if you're not angry at the time and happen to like the person!

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

This is exactly the sort of smart-ass response that I've wanted to give someone to their face, but have never had the guts...

It's remarkably hard, in all seriousness, to tell someone right to their face that you genuinely believe that they are ignorant, especially if you're not angry at the time and happen to like the person!

The nice thing about being ignorant is that there is so much more to learn. That is, if you are wanting and willing.

I'm a hard-core autodidact (music, programming, and life in general). The more I discover about this world the more I realize I have yet to learn.

Charlie (so much to learn, so little time) Monoxide

 

[Jimbo07]

I think you have had to do some learning to have a chance of recognizing ignorance as a starting point.

For some, an accusation of ignorance = an accusation of stupidity. It's only stupid if one remains willfully ignorant.

What I don't like, however, is the glorification of ignorance. Of course this happens with ID, but I'm thinking more of the grass-roots level. It's the sort of thinking that leads people to be derisive of academics while praising 'street-smarts.'