Tai Chi?

[Mouthfire]

....total drivel....

Hmmm... yet another sock pocket?

Phrost, notice how he ends up sounding like a "Chase Bannon".... *rolleyes*




This is getting pretty old....

 

[T'ai Chi]

We've established that he's immune to common sense on Bullshido ...

Instead of your vague offerings, feel free to point to something specific. Although here you won't be able to condone admins editing posts that haven't broken any rules.

Now speaking of common sense, you said:

I am an amatuer Mixed Martial Arts fighter, and own/operate the largest Martial Arts forum on the Internet,

Neal, how are you defining "largest" exactly?
(numbers as of today)

Bullshido : Threads: 34,137, Posts: 1,007,760, Members: 16,541
E-budo : Threads: 22,748, Posts: 299,879, Members: 17,170
Martial Arts Planet : Threads: 51,686, Posts: 902,002, Members: 24,211
Sherdog: Threads: 124,392, Posts: 3,627,972, Members: 56,878

I'd ignore that too, don't blame you.

 

[Mouthfire]

The Chi-ster isn't even intelligent enough to figure out Phrost put his trolling arse on "ignore".

Go figure....

 

[T'ai Chi]

What facts do you deal with? If it didn't happen in the UfC it's not fact?

That's something I find quite telling when debating experts with their own webpages like Neal who are converts of UFC-ish events.

They'll often refer, not to real life with no rules and unplanned fights where it counts, but to sport/entertainment with dozens of rules and completely different situations, and then they'll talk about what goes on in these sport/entertainment events as if it determines what would go on in real life. So if techniques from martial art X are not seen in these events, it cannot possibly work in real life (despite real life evidence to the contrary).

Now obviosuly an arm bar in the ring is physically the same as an armbar out of the ring, but the situation is different, something they don't take into consideration when talking about 'proof' and 'evidence'. Take UFC-ish events for example. You got professional athletes who train exclusively, with many personal trainers, for years, under a contract (which we never see), and know their opponent well in advance, can study their videos, have a referee, no real threat of death, dozens of rules and prohibited techniques, guaranteed cushy (relatively) ground to land on, and guaranteed 1 on 1 situation. These nice situations are not what us average Joes/Janes encounter in our daily lives, and hence 'evidence' from such events doesn't seem directly comparable.

Neal will compare what happens in these events to say what can or cannot happen in real life, and feel justified mainly because the contact and resistance levels are high. He's trying to tell us that no matter the food, a fork is always better than a spoon.

Also, in the worldwide history of sport/entertainment there has been fixed matches, this is a fact. Who knows if such things occur in UFC-ish events? I doubt it occurs, but one doesn't really know. Neal could be making his pronouncements of effectiveness based on fixed events, and not even know it- he has no possible way of knowing.

The biggest myths I see from these events are

• using sport/entertainment to "prove" that one style is the best in a streetfight (that was the original goal of UFC under Rorian Gracie, for example)
• the early advertising of 'no holds barred' and 'there are no rules', both false statements
• the whole myth of there being an ultimate anything

 

[thaiboxerken]

If I buy my 9 year old daughter a website and put her in mixed sports training would that make her an expert like you?

I'm not sure if she'd be an expert like Phrost, but she'd be more of an expert than you at that point.

 

[Jekyll]

....have a referee, no real threat of death, dozens of rules and prohibited techniques, guaranteed cushy (relatively) ground to land on, and guaranteed 1 on 1 situation. These nice situations are not what us average Joes/Janes encounter in our daily lives.....

I'm curious, when was the last time you were in a situation that was less 'nice' than being locked in a cage with *insert bottom rung pro-MMA fighter's name here* and being told to "get it on"?

 

[T'ai Chi]

I'm curious, when was the last time you were in a situation that was less 'nice' than being locked in a cage with *insert bottom rung pro-MMA fighter's name here* and being told to "get it on"?

Nice meaning controlled environment, and agreed upon fights.

Despite high levels of contact and resistance, I'm not interested in agreed upon fights in controlled environments, but in reality.

Just like I don't watch NASCAR drivers on TV to learn how I should drive in real life.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Just like I don't watch NASCAR drivers on TV to learn how I should drive in real life.

But you'll still pretend that you could beat those NASCAR drivers in a street-race, right?

 

[Phrost]

....

Let's make this simple:

You implied you were an authority on the Martial Arts.

Who are you?

(P.S. lol@"I'm a bouncer". You and 2039840238 other guys, pal).

I've been a personal trainer since I was twenty and am certified in three national organization. Now I'm going back to school to get my doctorate in Chinese medicine because i realized that the four year masters program (my under grad is a psych/bio combo) leaves one with more questions than answers. It still works but a lot of the why it works is what I'm learning now.

Oh yes, the esteemed, and eminently credible "Doctorate of Chinese Medicine". Your grinding of yak penis and deer antlers has inspired me to seek out my own doctorate in medieval medicine in order to be on equal footing with you. Bloodletting to balance the humours is such an underappreciated art these days.

Reminds me of "Hate the player not the game." Don't worry it won't belong before schools will be opening up with instructors doing your MMA with no more training than having a website and watching all the UFC's. Mark my words.

You're a few years behind the curve sparky. We've already busted a few of these individuals.

You say you have a problem with Tai Chi but not with effectiveness of Tai Chi's movements? You must have caught how silly you sounded and tried to correct mid thought. I'm guessing you are re-saying you don't like how Tai Chi is taught, even though you already said it. Now are you also saying that you have done extensive research on teaching Tai Chi teaching style from around the world?

I have this device that wards off invisible purple ninjas. Have you done extensive research on my device's effectiveness around the world?

1. We have several people on Bullshido who do Tai Chi and train it full contact with sparring and not just Push Hands or compliant drills.

2. They are the exception, not the rule.

I'm just guessing here but I would put money on the high probability that many of today’s race car drivers sat in there dad's car pretending to drive. Maybe not NASCAR since you really only need to turn left.

I'm also guessing that they didn't rely on just sitting in their driveway in order to be better at it, Captain Obtuse.

This training isn't garbage, it's just a stage in the training. An intermediate levlif you will. This is often taught this way in MMA schools as well before one is "let loose" on the mat. Buy saying that statement you are also saying that MMA traing is garbage.

I'm saying that limiting yourself to only that stage of training is garbage, and that only a minority of Tai Chi schools do otherwise.

What facts do you deal with? If it didn't happen in the UfC it's not fact? Pehaps they (you?) just don't know how to correctly do small joint manipulation. Instead of running away from new (to you) ideas, learn so techniques and try it nextime you on the mat. You have to restain the wrist and work the fingers with the other if they are sweaty and if they have a closed fist and you can't get a finger, hold the wrist agaist your body and press the bent thumb (don't straighten it) towards the elbow.

I own Wally Jay's book on SCJJ, thanks. It's been on my shelf for about 6 years now.

But I'll invite you to attempt restraining my wrist to fiddle with my fingers while I'm not cooperating with you and punching you in the face. We'll even call it the Bullshido $10 challenge if you'd like.

TKD's grappling is the same you use in MMA, arm bar, hammerlock, chokes, sleeper etc. So does that mean MMA's grappling is also garbage.
How about the propaganda that if you suck down xenadrine you to can be a ultimate fighter. Doesn't even mention sticking steroids in your ass.

TKD's grappling:

Now I don't expect you to know what's wrong with this picture, but anyone who actually knows how to grapple can spot it in an instant. Please note that this is a TAKEWONDO GRAPPLING AND GROUNDFIGHTING INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO.

Thanks for playing though.

That might hold water if these grappling techniques didn't come out years before anyone even heard of MMA. It’s in go jo ryu, chito ryu etc. What you don't seem to realize is that the human body only moves in certain ways and MMA didn't invent anything new or more effective.

Form without function. The "techniques" could be in Baka Gaijin Ryu Karate from 1864, but if they're not being trained with aliveness, claiming to have those techniques is pointless because you've never actually used them against someone trying to actively hurt you.

That's not what kata is for, kata besides being a method of visualization (every great sports player uses visualization as a training method, you should also) it is a way to pass on knowledge from generation to generation. As a website owner you should know this.

Most sports players don't spend tens of hours a week learning how to visualize things.

Your signature doesn't mention amateur, but I do see the problem here. You actually think what you do is martial arts. MMA should be called MSA for "Mixed Sports Arts."

Mixed from boxing - sport, judo - sport, muay tai - sport, bjj - sport derived from another sport when he was to weak to do the first sport standing, kickboxing - sport. If you want to get rid of the BS in martial arts you should start in you own backyard by not calling what you do as martial, because it is not. It came from sport and is still sport.

The difference between sport fighting and real fighting is little more than knowning you have to stop beating on the other guy at a certain point.

Which is much less than the difference between real fighting, and the complete lack of anything doing more than just resembling fighting at most Martial Arts schools.

This also explains why there is no martial strategy ( did you learn yang ming, tai yang, shao yang, tai yin shao yin, jue yin, fighting protocol from sports fighting, do you even know what they are? How about the controlling cycle of the five phases as applied to martial strategy? No?) , no strikes to vital areas etc (how much anatomy and physiology have you learned in your sports training. Do you know you can activate the carotid sinus without doing a rear naked choke and cutting of the blood supply? How about hitting in places to motoneuron not to function? Do you know where a motoneuron is located?) I've seen better martial techniques in women's self defense classes. Look at how they stand together against the fence holding each others wrists trying to knee each other, they don't have even the basic about torque in there repertoire because both judo ands therefore bjj stressed push pull and leverage, not torque.

This is the point where I roll my eyes at you bringing up pressure points.

Many things in MMA (MSA) you won't do in a street, fight like trading punches to the head, (you parry the punch and follow it in to the body or you strike the limb in places like the brachial radialis etc. to cause numbness and loss of function of those muscles)
You don’t pull guard, which is another word for lying on your back with you feet in the air, against a street fighter. That leads to getting kicked in the nads, thighs, legs, feet etc. by someone with shoes or boots on. Never would you pass guard, half guard etc and sit or lie on top of them, the bad guy would stomp on your head, ribs, internal organs etc. And if the bad guy got his leg grabbed he'll kick with the other one or jump down on your chest and head with his knees.
If you did happen to end up in the "ground and pound" position you don't start lobbing punches to their head because not only is the skull hard but the floor is even harder and you will break your fist. You take their head and pound it into the ground.

There is no "ground and pound position". Thank you for revealing your complete and total ignorance of groundfighting techniqes and principles.

Me over 29 yrs or real martial arts fighting in the real world. 15 years as a trainer. 3ys undergrad in bio/psych, 4 yrs masters Chinese medicine, almost finished last two of doctorate. Webpage and can be an amateur fighter tomorrow but why would I?

You: an anonymous person claiming to be this and that, who has over the course of a single post, outed yourself as being completely ignorant of at least one entire range of fighting (grappling) while thinking a doctorate of Chinese Medicine is something of value and that pressure point attacks are more than just gimmicks that would piss off a trained fighter.

 

[Jekyll]

Nice meaning controlled environment, and agreed upon fights.

Despite high levels of contact and resistance, I'm not interested in agreed upon fights in controlled environments, but in reality.

Because of course, UFC fights don't occur in reality but on a higher plane of existence for tax purposes.

Anyway this is what I'm interested in;

These nice situations are not what us average Joes/Janes encounter in our daily lives.....

When was the last situation you were in that was less 'nice'/controlled than a cage fight?
I don't for one moment believe this 'daily lives' rubbish.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I think Tai Chi is implying that he fights in the streets everyday adn that average Joes and Janes do too.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Because of course, UFC fights don't occur in reality but on a higher plane of existence for tax purposes.

Non-sequitor.

I'm interested in real life, not sport/entertainment fights with dozens of rules and controlled environment. If those impress you, that is OK by me, just not what I'm interested in.

When was the last situation you were in that was less 'nice'/controlled than a cage fight?

Driving to work.

Seriously, everyday has that potential. You could get mugged at the ATM, or pushed into a car along the side of the road, or attacked in a parking lot, and on and on.

Real life has no fight rules and no controlled environment, unlike sport/entertainment which has both.

 

[T'ai Chi]

(P.S. lol@"I'm a bouncer". You and 2039840238 other guys, pal).

Amateur fighter? Person who created their own webpage? Those seem more common.

But I'll invite you to attempt restraining my wrist to fiddle with my fingers while I'm not cooperating with you and punching you in the face. We'll even call it the Bullshido $10 challenge if you'd like.

Let me get this straight, a person tells you what they are going to do before they do it, then you miraculously escape from it because you saw it coming. Is that supposed to convince anyone?

Now I don't expect you to know what's wrong with this picture, but anyone who actually knows how to grapple can spot it in an instant.

It is a pattern of postings that I read on Bullshido, to post a picture then debate it endlessly as if an empty critique of a still photo has any bearing on a dynamic combat situation.

The difference between sport fighting and real fighting is little more than knowning you have to stop beating on the other guy at a certain point.

"Little more" = Dozens of rules and controlled environment

 

[Mouthfire]

I'm interested in real life, not sport/entertainment fights with dozens of rules and controlled environment. If those impress you, that is OK by me, just not what I'm interested in.

Actually, Justin's more interested in pretending to be a martial artist than anything else.

Because we all know that's what he does.

 

[Mouthfire]

Let me get this straight, a person tells you what they are going to do before they do it, then you miraculously escape from it because you saw it coming. Is that supposed to convince anyone?

Actually, Phrost could make you cry like a baby, whether you told him what you were doing or not.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Actually, Phrost could make you cry like a baby, whether you told him what you were doing or not.

But in "real life", Tai Chi won't ever fight anyone of any decent skill in MMA.

 

[Mouthfire]

Of course, the real underlying issue is that T'ai Chi knows deep down that any MMA'er would easily obliterate his untrained, unmotivated behind into the ground, and that's what REALLY got his knickers in a twist.

How else do you explain his incessant whining? "You guys are such martial arts bullies!!" *whine*

 

[T'ai Chi]

That's the last nail in the coffin, I think. When someone is looking up to TC as an expert on martial arts you know they're totally out of touch with reality.

He didn't say I was an expert, nor did I say I'm an expert, nor did his post indicate he was looking up to me as an expert.

He just said I believe that he agreed with my particular opinion.

 

[T'ai Chi]

How else do you explain his incessant whining? "You guys are such martial arts bullies!!" *whine*

Well, that comes from evidence, like admin on Bullshido that edit posts that have broken no rules at all, are just peoples' opinions, and still maintain it is a place for skeptical thought on the martial arts. I find these, and not by doing any in-depth search, but just by browsing around.

And the oft-heard claims that what does/doesn't happen in sport/entainment says what can/cannot happen in real life (where it counts).

And not to mention some claims. Take the claim that Bullshido is the largest martial arts forum on the internet. Huh?

 

[Mouthfire]

*whine*

Enough said....