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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Israel does allow Gazan distressed and sick to be treated in our hospitals.
Or transferred through Ben Gurion International to other countries.
You should know that.

There is video evidence from Gaza regarding the HAMAS warehouses overflowing with formula.
It's not my 'assertion' at all. (See: New York Post and others)
Erez Winter and Gadi Taub in their August Tablet article “Feeding the Enemy” cover this story as well.
I am OK with relying on the information provided by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib.
He is not an Israeli. He understands (and despises) what HAMAS has wrought.
There are many like-minded Gazans who've had ENOUGH!
Yet, here you are, ignoring the vile and despicable HAMAS control over the lives of Gazans.

Israel became the first country in the history of warfare to assume responsibility for feeding the enemy population.
 
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webfusion said:
HAMAS confiscated the baby food.

They deliberately hid tons of baby formula and children's nutritional shakes in their Gaza warehouses to exacerbate the hunger crisis and use civilian suffering as propaganda against Israel.

The allegations surrounding the availability of baby formula are complex, with different parties providing contrasting information. HAMAS is actively manipulating the humanitarian situation for political gain, leveraging civilian hardship to sway international opinion.
Their evil plans worked to perfection, apparently, as we see planigale posting her allegations, without mentioning HAMAS at all.

Again, I am in favor of alleviating the suffering of Gazans, by their millions, by giving them access to elArish and evacuating the tent camps and makeshift shelters. Half of Gazans would do so in a heartbeat, if given that option.

Holding them against their will in the Gaza Strip is inhumane.

Aid supply is not the main problem.
HAMAS is the problem.
Click to expand...
You do know how irrational this claim is don't you?
Israel controls what goes into Gaza. The baby formula going into Gaza would be brought in by an NGO such as Oxfam or Save the Children. All the NGOs have their own distribution systems, they don't put their supplies into a Hamas warehouse. What would Hamas have to gain by stockpiling aid; they'd gain more by distributing it and being seen as saviours to the starving babies, promoting loyalty.

This is obvious black propaganda.
 
webfusion said:
Israel does allow Gazan distressed and sick to be treated in our hospitals.
Or transferred through Ben Gurion International to other countries.
You should know that.

There is video evidence from Gaza regarding the HAMAS warehouses overflowing with formula.
It's not my 'assertion' at all. (See: New York Post and others)
Erez Winter and Gadi Taub in their August Tablet article “Feeding the Enemy” cover this story as well.
I am OK with relying on the information provided by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib.
He is not an Israeli. He is a Muslim in Gaza who understands (and despises) what HAMAS has wrought.
There are many like-minded Gazans who've had ENOUGH!
Yet, here you are, ignoring the vile and despicable HAMAS control over the lives of Gazans.

Israel became the first country in the history of warfare to assume responsibility for feeding the enemy population.
Click to expand...
Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib is not a muslim in gaza he is a US citizen who has a degree in intelligence studies from the American Military University. He has not been in Gaza.

The video has been identified as being taken in August 2025. Armed groups affiliated with Abu Shabab and other gang groups were controlling the aid trucks, which they blatantly looted at that time. They were 'sponsored' by the IDF as anti-Hamas forces. The aid the gangs looted was sold in the market by gangs at crazy prices. When time passed and they couldn’t sell it, they disposed of it in this manner. The video was published by one of the known false news sources, and then it was picked up by Ahmad al-Khatib.

No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials S…

archived 30 Jul 2025 11:16:14 UTC
archive.ph archive.ph
 
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You are completely failing to understand the methodology of HAMAS in this situation.
They control Gaza because they control the money, the jobs, the food, the education, the Rafah crossing exit permits, etc etc.

The HAMAS plan was to create a 'starvation' and 'famine' scenario. It worked to perfection.

As for al-Khatib, I misspoke about him being "in Gaza" but he is "From Gaza" (until age 15) and now follows the HAMAS situtation closely. Anyway, it's a minor quibble, not worth getting into a pissing match about that.
The amount of propaganda is virtually limitless, from everyone.

The Intifada has been Globalized. THAT was the objective.

=====================

Arthwollipot, I do know that HAMAS is inhumane.
The relatively low raw numbers of Gazan dead is a testament to Israel restraint and consideration about the population's well-being.
You are welcome to view it otherwise, of course.
 
Yes, arthwollipot, the war produced a RELATIVELY low fatality count, due to Israeli caution and evacuations.

How many of the fatalities were HAMAS & Co. ?? Please tell us, it should be a simple thing to find that info, right?

HAMAS says: All deaths in Gaza are resulting from "Israeli aggression."
And here we are... arthwollipot is amazed that HAMAS got their asses kicked hard.

Including the airstrike on Raed Saad, Hamas's top commander and head of weapons manufacturing.

Good riddance.
 
webfusion said:
Yes, arthwollipot, the war produced a RELATIVELY low fatality count, due to Israeli caution and evacuations.
Click to expand...
Relative to what?

"Israeli caution" is absolute bull. Israel will mow down civilians and justify it by saying that the terrorists were using them as human shields. You yourself have made that argument. Labelling it as "caution" isn't fooling anyone. Except you.
 
You are completely failing to understand the methodology of HAMAS in this situation.
They control Gaza because they control the money, the jobs, the food, the education, the Rafah crossing exit permits, etc etc.

The HAMAS plan was to create a 'starvation' and 'famine' scenario. It worked to perfection.
Click to expand...

Please post any evidence for this.

This is more Israeli black propaganda. You do not have to believe everything you read. Try to think rationally; what gain would Hamas have from this? Hamas isn't some abstract concept it is rooted in the people of Gaza. It is mostly a governmental service delivering local health care, education, security. A starving population isn't in their interest. It clearly was the expressed intent of members of the Israeli government and Israeli politicians. It is part of standard Israeli strategy of collective punishment to separate 'the people' from the organisation. It is why Israel deliberately targets people in their homes killing their families. It is to terrify others, as a warning that their families will suffer not just them. It is the expressed reason why the family homes of 'terrorists' are destroyed, to make the family suffer, to act as a deterrence.

Given that senior Israeli politicians have called for this, that it fits with Israeli anti-terrorist doctrine, why do you say it was the intent of Hamas? Do you think Hamas tricked Israel into doing its will? Remember Israel has absolute control of what went into (and out of Gaza), Hamas couldn't have stopped (and didn't stop) aid coming in. All the NGOs were clear they controlled and distributed aid not Hamas. Your statement is irrational just try and review the evidence and think about it logically.

Remember the blockade started after Israel unilaterally ended a previous ceasefire.
Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz described the blockade as a “main pressure lever” against Hamas, saying there were no plans to ease restrictions
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Hamas didn't praise Israel for starving Gaza on the contrary they opposed the policy,
Hamas condemned Katz’s remarks as “a public admission of committing a war crime”.

Israel is “depriving innocent civilians of basic necessities of life, including food, medicine, water and fuel, for the seventh consecutive week”, the group said in a statement posted to Telegram on Thursday. “We renew our calls for the international community to take action to stop the starvation and blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip,” it added.
Click to expand...

Bezalel Smotrich, “No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages.”
Click to expand...
 
Are you seriously denying that Hamas’ intention in invading Israel was to provoke an attack with inevitable deaths to people they purport to govern? That they did not care about the fact that Palestinians would die, and in fact wanted it to happen?

If so, you are seriously deluded.
 
lionking said:
Are you seriously denying that Hamas’ intention in invading Israel was to provoke an attack with inevitable deaths to people they purport to govern? That they did not care about the fact that Palestinians would die, and in fact wanted it to happen?

If so, you are seriously deluded.
Click to expand...
I do not know what their intent was. If you have evidence of their intent, please share it. If it is your opinion, then you are entitled to express it, but don't confuse that with what Hamas's intentions were.

it is worth remembering that they did not know of the dance festival, and their original plan was based on seizing military, security and police sites. (including seizing hostages for negotiation). They may well have under estimated the extent of Israeli vengeance. It may be they gave little thought to the consequences. The extent of civilian casualties may have been greater than they planned, particularly given that nearly half of civilian deaths were at the Nova festival which they were unaware of and attacking it was unplanned. It don't think (personal opinion) that they thought that Israel would deliberately starve Gaza.

If and when you come up with some facts I'll review them. if it is just your opinion I'll respect that, but not necessarily agree.
 
Planigale said:
I do not know what their intent was. If you have evidence of their intent, please share it. If it is your opinion, then you are entitled to express it, but don't confuse that with what Hamas's intentions were.

it is worth remembering that they did not know of the dance festival, and their original plan was based on seizing military, security and police sites. (including seizing hostages for negotiation). They may well have under estimated the extent of Israeli vengeance. It may be they gave little thought to the consequences. The extent of civilian casualties may have been greater than they planned, particularly given that nearly half of civilian deaths were at the Nova festival which they were unaware of and attacking it was unplanned. It don't think (personal opinion) that they thought that Israel would deliberately starve Gaza.

If and when you come up with some facts I'll review them. if it is just your opinion I'll respect that, but not necessarily agree.
Click to expand...
It’s not my opinion, it is Hamas’ stated intention to destroy Israel. It is not and has never been some beneficial social welfare organisation. If you do not accept this, you are beyond help.
 
arthwollipot said:
How many civilians were killed in that airstrike?
Click to expand...

Who actually cares?
Do you know the answer, BTW?
It looked like a precision attack, with only the occupants of the vehicle eliminated.

Gazans are transiting Israel to leave.
Hundreds of 'em. Thousands more to go.
Sayonara.
www.jpost.com

Gazans with visas travel abroad through Israel | The Jerusalem Post

All such individuals are first approved by the Israeli security establishment before they are permitted to travel to ensure they are not escaping wanted terrorists.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com

"...evidence of their intent, please share it."
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory). -- preamble to HAMAS Charter.
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." ---- (Article 7, ibid)
That sure seems to be more obvious evidence of intent.
Your mileage may vary.
Are these 'military sites'? ---
Nahal Oz, Kfar Aza, Magen, Be'eri, Alumim, Ofakim, Mefalsim, and Sufa, among other civilian sites.

The attacks began with a barrage of at least 4,300 rockets launched indiscriminately into Israel towns and communities.
6,000 Gazans breached the border fortifications into Israel.
Israeli first responders recovered documents from killed militants' bodies with instructions to attack civilians, including elementary schools and a youth center, to "kill as many people as possible"


lionking, I believe that HAMAS is indeed engaged in social & educational endeavors.
honestreporting.com

Hamas Ran Gaza’s Aid System. NGOs Helped Keep the Secret. | HonestReporting

Key Takeaways: Newly declassified Hamas documents show the terror group infiltrated major humanitarian NGOs in Gaza, placing Hamas “guarantors” inside
honestreporting.com honestreporting.com
 
webfusion said:
Who actually cares?
Click to expand...
Who cares about civilian deaths? That's a very damning question. A very damning question, which reveals a lot about your moral status, or complete lack thereof. You claim to be righteous, and then you ask "who cares how many civilians were killed?". You are not righteous.
 
NatalieSalat said:
Only the perps are responsible for suffering cry the hard and far left... unless its groups they like and additionally, falsely term "resistance" such as Hamas, the PLO, the LTTE, Viet Cong/the DRV et al -- despite those groups' authoritarian and oppressive tactics and rule over territory

No, it is not freezing in Gaza. "Gaza is freezing" has succeeded "Gaza is starving" as the fake news favorite of the week. It hasn't been colder than 12 degrees in Gaza for the past fortnight, while we are being told that babies are freezing to death.

View attachment 67067

Allowing the likely infiltration of militants and terrorists across recognised borders, whether EGY or ISR is why those borders are restricted. The "open-air prison" myth always and deliberately elided that.
Click to expand...
www.aljazeera.com

Palestinian infant freezes to death in Gaza as Israel keeps blocking aid

Winter cold 'becomes lethal' as Israel restricts entry of tents, blankets and other shelter supplies to ravaged enclave.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
One baby's death is one too many. It is not freezing you say. Children aren't starving you say. Try saying that when you have to hand a dead child to its mother.
Try and justify this you heartless ******
 
One death is a tragedy.
70,000 deaths is a statistic.

Gazans are in trouble. Deep trouble.
With a very narrow window of opportunity to make things right.
Israel still expects Ran Gvili's corpse. What condolences are you conveying to his mother here, planigale??
There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip; we'll see how a ceasefire can unravel in a New York minute...

The most obvious answer for relief is not bringing more free ◊◊◊◊ into Gaza, but giving the Gazans themselves an elegant exit (and half of the whole population have quietly expressed desires to take off).
 
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