• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

webfusion said:
planigale, the Egyptians are refusing to allow the exit of Palestinians.

www.abc.net.au

Rafah crossing will open to let Gazans cross into Egypt

Israeli authorities have announced the Rafah border crossing from Gaza into Egypt will open "in coming days," but only for Palestinians wanting to leave the war-ravaged strip.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Click to expand...
Egypt is saying that it has to be an open border. Israel is refusing to open it, they will only allow exit from Gaza but not entry into Gaza for aid. Why do you find it necessary to lie to defend Israel? Any usual sense of an open border is that it is not one way.
 
Last edited:
Let me get this straight.

You're claiming that it's Egypt that's stopping people from Gaza from entering. And as evidence you post an article that says that Israel is going to open the border. Is that right?
 
Only the perps are responsible for suffering cry the hard and far left... unless its groups they like and additionally, falsely term "resistance" such as Hamas, the PLO, the LTTE, Viet Cong/the DRV et al -- despite those groups' authoritarian and oppressive tactics and rule over territory

No, it is not freezing in Gaza. "Gaza is freezing" has succeeded "Gaza is starving" as the fake news favorite of the week. It hasn't been colder than 12 degrees in Gaza for the past fortnight, while we are being told that babies are freezing to death.

1765669455499.png

Allowing the likely infiltration of militants and terrorists across recognised borders, whether EGY or ISR is why those borders are restricted. The "open-air prison" myth always and deliberately elided that.
 
NatalieSalat said:
Only the perps are responsible for suffering cry the hard and far left... unless its groups they like and additionally, falsely term "resistance" such as Hamas, the PLO, the LTTE, Viet Cong/the DRV et al -- despite those groups' authoritarian and oppressive tactics and rule over territory
Click to expand...
The perps in this case are the Israelis who are entirely responsible for the suffering and death of Palestinian civilians and noncombatants.

NatalieSalat said:
No, it is not freezing in Gaza. "Gaza is freezing" has succeeded "Gaza is starving" as the fake news favorite of the week. It hasn't been colder than 12 degrees in Gaza for the past fortnight, while we are being told that babies are freezing to death.
Click to expand...
No, it is not "freezing" in Gaza. But it is very, very wet. Do you know what the effects of living covered in mud for weeks at a time are?
 
Arth, the only ones responsible for the Palestinian peoples' suffering are their leaders - from the Mufti to Abbas and also Hamas.

In 1947, 70% of Mandatory Palestine was already Jordan. The leaders demanded all of the remaining 30% -- a ◊◊◊◊◊◊ move.
 
It's not a 'border' --- Rafah is a very limited crossing point (for people, not cargo facility), and isn't really designed for aid transfers. Israel is trying to get Egypt to permit evacuating people from the war-torn territory. The Egyptians don't want to give the Gazans an exit route. Keep 'em where they are, is the Egyptian position.
There will be a day when Gaza regains the grandeur and glory of the past. When the Gazans can once again live in Free Palestine, Free of HAMAS rule. For now, pfffft.....

arthwollipot, you claimed that IDF killed 'more HAMAS' (a remark offered sarcastically) and then proceeded to offer information about deaths resulting from a winter storm. Why did you do that?

I just am trying to wrap my head around the way that 'inhumane conditions' are not being alleviated by allowing the people to leave for places where they won't be subjected to such deprivations. It's almost as if Gazans are pawns.
Israel is not 'entirely responsible' for anything related to Gaza.

That'll buff right out. (Remains of HAMAS leader's automobile, slightly damaged by IAF)
 
webfusion said:
arthwollipot, you claimed that IDF killed 'more HAMAS' (a remark offered sarcastically) and then proceeded to offer information about deaths resulting from a winter storm. Why did you do that?
Click to expand...
Israel caused the inhumane conditions. It's harder to weather out a storm if you have no inside to go to and you're living in a tent with a mud floor.

webfusion said:
I just am trying to wrap my head around the way that 'inhumane conditions' are not being alleviated by allowing the people to leave for places where they won't be subjected to such deprivations. It's almost as if Gazans are pawns.
Click to expand...
I am trying to wrap my head around how Israel can destroy peoples' homes, farms, infrastructure, livelihoods, health care, schools, and force them to live in tents, then blame them for not moving elsewhere.
 
You didn't answer my question. You posted about "more Hamas terrorists killed. Legitimate targets, all." (said with obvious sarcasm) and then proceeded to mention deaths caused by weather.

I am blaming Egypt for not giving Gazans access to AlArish.
That has to change. The USA and Israel need to apply some leverage.
Egypt wants the natural gas that Israel is extracting from the Chevron fields.
That deal is worth billions of $$.
What is the quid-pro-quo that Egypt is willing to provide for a deal being implemented?
The Americans are trying to arrange a meeting with Sisi & Bibi, and Gaza's future needs to be considered in that context.
Inhumane conditions in Gaza? That's been the case for decades.
Let Those People Go!

 
webfusion said:
You didn't answer my question. You posted about "more Hamas terrorists killed. Legitimate targets, all." (said with obvious sarcasm) and then proceeded to mention deaths caused by weather.
Click to expand...
Israel caused the inhumane conditions, without which these innocent civilians and noncombatants would not have died. Their deaths are more blood on Israel's hands, and there's already a lot of that.
 
And before anyone else says anything, I absolutely condemn what appears to be a targeted attack on Chanukah festivities taking place on Bondi Beach in Sydney this evening.

arthwollipot

Thread 'Mass shooting at Bondi Beach'

Live updates:

www.abc.net.au

Live: Police responding to reports of active shooter at Bondi Beach

The public is being urged to avoid the area and two people are in custody. Follow live.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Two people in custody, early reports say multiple fatalities. It appears to have been a deliberate and targeted attack on Chanukah festivities.

www.theguardian.com

Bondi beach mass shooting: NSW police advise people to ‘take shelter’ with two in custody

NSW police say two people arrested but the ‘operation is ongoing and we continue to urge people to avoid the area’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
  • Sad
 
Nobody wants to hear about 'condemnations' in Australia or anywhere else, at this point. Absolute or otherwise.

"Israel caused the inhumane conditions, without which these innocent civilians and noncombatants would not have died." ---- That is not a proposition which would stand up to scrutiny.
Gaza in winter is always a mess. I've been there in wintertime, it's a real challenge to keep warm and dry, and Gazans are always dying from the cold and horrid conditions. This is typical of Gaza, not something that can be solely attributed to the events of this war.

Despite the typical annual rate of 5,000 natural deaths in Gaza, the HAMAS-generated fatality data provided no accounting for such 'normal' figures.

Anyway, you claimed that the IDF killed them directly. (You said exactly that, in a backhanded sort of way)

Gaza is a base of violent jihadists whose goal is to ‘liberate Palestine.’
That paradigm is undergoing a sea-change.
Get used to it.
 
One, look it up yourself, it's available information pretty much everywhere. I'm not here to spoon-feed you about the natural death rate in Gaza annually. The point remains the same -- many people die in Gaza every winter regardless of anything the IDF does or does not do. It's Gaza, for crying out loud, a horrible horrible place on earth.

Two, of those 23,000, how about if we suppose HAMAS & Co. "Health Ministry" figures are useless for anything-- since they don't disclose their own losses, I'm gonna avoid using their numbers. You should also.

Three, in the face of people who want us dead --
Happy Hanukkah.
 
No acknowledgement of the fact that the death rate in 2024 was 360% above the background rate? What do you think might account for that? I wonder.
 
arthwollipot, the raw numerical values are not of any importance to me. War tends to produce fatalities.
You produced a post (#3905) that was a lie. In that repost of Beckett, you intimated that the 14 listed fatalities were the result of IDF action against them, and 3 innocent uninvolved civilian kids & a baby were just "more Hamas terrorists killed. Legitimate targets, all" --- when in fact, weather conditions led to their demise.
Which I am claiming is weather (hot as hell or rainy& cold& muddy) is actually a routine cause of deaths in Gaza, and has been that way from time immemorial.
Are the crappy conditions of people in Gaza exacerbated by the results of their leaders opening a war? Sure, nobody can argue otherwise. Did the IDF produce incredible devastation in Gaza? You bet.
However, even in quiet times, Gaza sucks to live in.

Now, this is the time for HAMAS to step aside.
If they refuse, there will be further consequences.
Maybe even ethnic cleansing... for their own overall benefit to get them out of the 'unlivable' situation.
It's not beyond the realm of possiblities.

After their homes had been destroyed in the war, Hamas is forcing displaced Gazans in al-Qarara to pay rent to live in tents on the beach
 
Last edited:
NatalieSalat said:
Only the perps are responsible for suffering cry the hard and far left... unless its groups they like and additionally, falsely term "resistance" such as Hamas, the PLO, the LTTE, Viet Cong/the DRV et al -- despite those groups' authoritarian and oppressive tactics and rule over territory

No, it is not freezing in Gaza. "Gaza is freezing" has succeeded "Gaza is starving" as the fake news favorite of the week. It hasn't been colder than 12 degrees in Gaza for the past fortnight, while we are being told that babies are freezing to death.

View attachment 67067

Allowing the likely infiltration of militants and terrorists across recognised borders, whether EGY or ISR is why those borders are restricted. The "open-air prison" myth always and deliberately elided that.
Click to expand...
Your inhumanity astounds.

Do you know the normal temperature of a baby?

A baby can easily die in a temperture of 12C.

For every 1.0°C of difference in minimum ambient temperature (averaged over the first week of life), the risk of moderate or severe hypothermia was 7.2% higher; for each incremental reduction in ambient temperature of 5.0°C and 10.0°C, the risk of hypothermia increased by a factor of 1.41 (95% CI, 1.40-1.43) and 2.00 (95% CI, 1.96-2.04), respectively. Babies exposed to the lowest quintile of average minimum ambient temperatures had 4.03 (95% CI, 3.77-4.30) times higher risk of moderate or severe hypothermia than those in the highest quintile
Click to expand...
The effect of hypothermia will be compounded by starvation. Why did Israel prevent aid organisations bringing baby formula into Gaza?
www.theguardian.com

‘They’re skin and bones’: doctors in Gaza warn babies at risk of death from lack of formula

Doctors say Israel is blocking deliveries of formula urgently needed as mothers are either dead or too malnourished to feed their babies
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
1765831266269.png
 
Last edited:
HAMAS confiscated the baby food.

They deliberately hid tons of baby formula and children's nutritional shakes in their Gaza warehouses to exacerbate the hunger crisis and use civilian suffering as propaganda against Israel.

The allegations surrounding the availability of baby formula are complex, with different parties providing contrasting information. HAMAS is actively manipulating the humanitarian situation for political gain, leveraging civilian hardship to sway international opinion.
Their evil plans worked to perfection, apparently, as we see planigale posting her allegations, without mentioning HAMAS at all.

Again, I am in favor of alleviating the suffering of Gazans, by their millions, by giving them access to elArish and evacuating the tent camps and makeshift shelters. Half of Gazans would do so in a heartbeat, if given that option.

Holding them against their will in the Gaza Strip is inhumane.

Aid supply is not the main problem.
HAMAS is the problem.
 
webfusion said:
HAMAS confiscated the baby food.

They deliberately hid tons of baby formula and children's nutritional shakes in their Gaza warehouses to exacerbate the hunger crisis and use civilian suffering as propaganda against Israel.

The allegations surrounding the availability of baby formula are complex, with different parties providing contrasting information. HAMAS is actively manipulating the humanitarian situation for political gain, leveraging civilian hardship to sway international opinion.
Their evil plans worked to perfection, apparently, as we see planigale posting her allegations, without mentioning HAMAS at all.

Again, I am in favor of alleviating the suffering of Gazans, by their millions, by giving them access to elArish and evacuating the tent camps and makeshift shelters. Half of Gazans would do so in a heartbeat, if given that option.

Holding them against their will in the Gaza Strip is inhumane.

Aid supply is not the main problem.
HAMAS is the problem.
Click to expand...
Israeli propaganda. There is no evidence for this.
Whereas direct witness testimony to Israel preventing baby formula entering Gaza.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=742311428447885
www.lemonde.fr

Israel limits entry of baby formula in Gaza as infants die of hunger

While waiting to enter Gaza on a medical aid mission, an American doctor watched Israeli security forces confiscate the cans of powdered baby formula packed in his luggage. The vital product is desperately lacking in the Palestinian enclave, where about 50 children have died of hunger since March.
www.lemonde.fr www.lemonde.fr

Let the injured children into Israel, where there are the closest medical facilities. Why won't Israel allow injured children to be treated by the closest medical facilities?

can you provide evidence to support your assertion?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom