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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

You didn't realize that "perlite" was irrelevant to metallurgy until I told you. You didn't realize that the translator didn't know what he was talking about either, until I told you. That means you don't understand the report as well as I do.
I did a short metallurgy course at college many years ago and have forgotten most of it so Vixen probably knows as much as me.
But, I wouldn't try to claim I understood the report without doing some study first.
 
The half asking Vixen to admit she didn't know what she was talking about, I suppose. Because we all know that will never happen.
Well, she more or less caved on the SwRI report. She might do so again here. We'll see how long she's willing to let herself be hoist on her own petard before I put her out of our misery.
 
Update from the German Group of Experts:



<snip>
From the article:
Update from the German Group of Experts:



<snip>
The person responsible for strategy and communications issues at BMTIG is Lars Ångström, who was responsible for the Estonia issue in the Swedish parliament for the Green Party from 2000 to 2006 and was the initiator of the parliament's cross-party Estonia group. He emphasizes that BMTIG now has access to film material that has never existed before, which allows for a clearer picture.
All you need to know.

Also, the author doesn't link to the report. And the report has to be submitted to universities and research institutes, which means it's worthless. Here's a link, because I'm not a complete idiot: https://www.estoniainvestigation.com/

 
The BMTIG conclude that the most likely scenario causing the damage in the side of the Estonia was caused by a collision with a 3,000 to 7,000 tonne vessel.

Vixen has told us that other folks with the necessary qualifications and experience have supposedly shown to a standard acceptable in a court of law, that explosives were involved in the sinking.

What do you think Vixen, demolition charges or a collision with a vessel weighing several thousand tonnes?
Edited by jimbob: 
rule 12 snipped
 
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That is a correct definition of pearlite . It is not a correct definition of perlite. It is obvious that @Vixen was confusing perlite with pearlite.
And in fact it was I who pointed out to @Andy_Ross that Vixen had stumbled on the right spelling and definition, although likely by accident because she didn't crow about it until I said something.

(@JayUtah can be a persistent cuss when the occasion calls for it)
If being married to a trial lawyer has taught me anything, it's how to cross-examine a hostile witness.

@JayUtah then sprang the trap:
The field isn't yet clear of pitfalls for her. As with the perlite/pearlite fiasco, @Vixen doesn't seem to know that she's already made the mistakes.

I wonder if her "Chemistry PhD" friend is the same one who told her that prime symbols were "apostrophes." I can see how such a person would be a poor science proofreader.

Thank you for the detailed, annotated narrative of the Brandenburg fiasco. And yes, everyone makes mistakes. Go back through the past few pages and see how many times I typed "Brandeburg." I know how the word is spelled. I just always mistype it, including embarrassingly on the printed program of a concert in which I played harpsichord for the "Brandeburg Concertos." The difference is that I know what the word is supposed to be.
 
The BMTIG conclude that the most likely scenario causing the damage in the side of the Estonia was caused by a collision with a 3,000 to 7,000 tonne vessel.
Except that it's the same illogic as Evertsson's shell game with Prof. Amdahl. In order to produce the collision energy they say is needed, that's the size, speed, and impact geometry the vessel would need—if it were a collision with a vessel. So far they present no evidence of any such vessel. Kurm, of course, was entrenched in the submarine collision hypothesis. It seems little has changed.

I haven't bothered yet to read the linked article or attempt to see whether any of the mentioned reports exist yet in English. The embedded Vimeo video has subtitles and seems to summarize the findings. In true conspiracy fashion, there seems to be no end of science to challenge the conventional narrative, but a dearth of evidence to support their affirmative claim.

Tl;dr the researchers deny that collision with the sea floor would produce enough energy to poke holes in the ship. They forget to mention the rocks; they insist it's a flat seafloor. They claim to have a physics model that supports their conclusions, and they have presented the model to universities and other researchers, apparently in the hope that they will validate it. Other than that, it's the same conspiracy nonsense Kurm has been peddling all along. Having constructed a number of such models, I can see the likely straw man already. The validity of the model products depends heavily on assumptions or estimates that are frequently very hard to make. Validating the model does not necessarily equate to validating its parameters. We'll see if anyone takes them up on it. Further, the researchers seem to consider only the initial impact and not any subsequent shifting of the wreck.
 
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Doesn't calculate the odds of the Estonia being struck, and sinking from upper hull damage, and then sinking in rough seas to land on the sea floor with the gash coming down exactly on top of the one outcrop. Nor does it explain why there is no damage in the hull sections where there are no rocks.

Also doesn't list any large vessels putting into drydock with significant bow damage in the week afterword, nor cite any intelligence reports of a military vessel being repaired for damage. Nor are there quotes from steel workers from any shipyards reporting working on repairs from an impact.

If they're going to make the claim they need to address these glaring facts.
 
Also doesn't list any large vessels putting into drydock with significant bow damage in the week afterword, nor cite any intelligence reports of a military vessel being repaired for damage. Nor are there quotes from steel workers from any shipyards reporting working on repairs from an impact.

If they're going to make the claim they need to address these glaring facts.
As I said, pure conspiracism. They've apparently pulled out all the stops trying to make it seem like the conventional narrative is scientifically, physically impossible. But when it comes to applying the same standard of proof to their own claims—Hm, it "must" have been a collision.
 
Yes I did recognise it, hence I provided the definition for 'pearlite', not 'perlite'. Sorry to disappoint so many people and depriving them of a gotcha.
The thing is, the search function works now, so it's simple to find examples of you posting the word "perlite", for example in the phrase, "changes respectively destruction of the cementite lamellas in the perlite".
 
Also doesn't list any large vessels putting into drydock with significant bow damage in the week afterword, nor cite any intelligence reports of a military vessel being repaired for damage. Nor are there quotes from steel workers from any shipyards reporting working on repairs from an impact.

Sacrificial huge airborne submarine with suicide-squadron crew, silly!

This extraordinary craft sank in the vicinity after carrying out its mission, then was dragged to port in the following weeks by those nefarious Russians.
 

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