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Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

I don't think it's just trolling - yes, he's always playing edgelord - but he also seems intent on taking every chance of destabilising European countries/EU, both by trying to influence elections on behalf of the far right, and by spreading rumours to cause problems. At the moment, he seems intent on stirring up a mostly dead conspiracy theory that have had islamists up in arms in Sweden (the social services, according to this ct, steal muslim children and give them to ethnic Swedes, in order to root out islam), so I find it very hard to dismiss it as merely trolling. He has a world wide platform, and money, and that, coupled with his deep ignorance and enormous arrogance, means that he can actually cause very real damage.
 
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Andy_Ross said:
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
When does it become a genocide?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1997609494738821618
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Hey Elon, ask your friends in Israel, they've been the only people massacring hundreds of thousands of innocents.

PS, if I got my maths right (which is not certain, I'm having a few drinks), by Galaxy Nazi's numbers and assuming every murder was carried out by a brown person the EU's population for the last 15 years would be 1,269,841,269 (actually probably higher, because I took Wikipedia's murder rate for the whole of Europe which included non-EU countries like Russia which have much higher rates than across the EU). The EU's actual population is roughly 450 million (i.e. about a third of what's needed).
 
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Helen said:
I don't think it's just trolling - yes, he's always playing edgelord - but he also seems intent on taking every chance of destabilising European countries/EU, both by trying to influence elections on behalf of the far right, and by spreading rumours to cause problems. At the moment, he seems intent on stirring up a mostly dead conspiracy theory that have had islamists up in arms in Sweden (the social services, according to this ct, steal muslim children and give them to ethnic Swedes, in order to root out islam), so I find it very hard to dismiss it as merely trolling. He has a world wide platform, and money, and that, coupled with his deep ignorance and enormous arrogance, means that he can actually cause very real damage.
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Fair enough. With that said, though, he knows he's spouting BS. There's just no reasonable way he doesn't. That Nazi salute? His permissiveness towards Nazis? All those dogwhistles? He knows and that's why he did them, implausible denials aside. Hence why I said it's vranyo/trolling.

Of note, I have no intention of suggesting to "dismiss it as merely trolling." Rather, that he's knowingly worked to cause real harm, especially done for personal gain, makes him despicable.
 
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jeremyp said:
Because free trade between two countries makes the people in both countries richer. It is economically very stupid to have a war in those circumstances.

Russia is having a war with Ukraine at the moment and it is destroying both countries. Free trade didn't prevent that war because the leader that perpetrated it is incredibly stupid.

China has not been involved in a major war for many decades because its leaders are not stupid and China is much richer than it would be without trade with the West.

Free trade stopping wars is one of the premises of the EU and it and its predecessor organisations have been extremely successful in that regard.
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No it doesn't, unless you only count the 1% as people and everybody else as untermenschen.

Free trade creates great riches for the top of society, but the age of greatest enrichment was one with significant restrictions on trade, the post second world war wonder years where social-democracy reigned.

Edit: No the EU is not a free trade association, it is actually very protectionist, albeit using standards to protect it's internal trade rather than tariffs.
 
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Helen said:
I don't think it's just trolling - yes, he's always playing edgelord - but he also seems intent on taking every chance of destabilising European countries/EU, both by trying to influence elections on behalf of the far right, and by spreading rumours to cause problems. At the moment, he seems intent on stirring up a mostly dead conspiracy theory that have had islamists up in arms in Sweden (the social services, according to this ct, steal muslim children and give them to ethnic Swedes, in order to root out islam), so I find it very hard to dismiss it as merely trolling. He has a world wide platform, and money, and that, coupled with his deep ignorance and enormous arrogance, means that he can actually cause very real damage.
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The EU are the only organisation willing to stand up to his Naziness.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
No it doesn't, unless you only count the 1% as people and everybody else as untermenschen.

Free trade creates great riches for the top of society, but the age of greatest enrichment was one with significant restrictions on trade, the post second world war wonder years where social-democracy reigned.

Edit: No the EU is not a free trade association, it is actually very protectionist, albeit using standards to protect it's internal trade rather than tariffs.
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Again, this really isn't true.

The EU is a free trade zone for all of the EU. The EU functions as a single customs union, meaning it has one common external tariff and trade policy, making it a significant global trading power. It is also a major player in the WTO, supporting multilateral trade rules, open markets, and sustainable development.

Tarrifs and protectionism is generally a disaster.
 
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jeremyp said:
Because free trade between two countries makes the people in both countries richer. It is economically very stupid to have a war in those circumstances.
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factually incorrect.
Free Trade makes the country with the more and bigger competitive advantages richer and the other country poorer. It is what has been happening in Developing Countries for the last half century+.
Because the IMF and World Bank demand that poorer countries put up no trade barriers, they cannot develop their own economy, as first-world countries can dump their products at lower cost into their markets.

Free Trade is what England had with India and the American Colonies, and it only made England richer.
All currently rich countries have gotten their through trade restrictions, first and foremost the US, England, Japan, South Korea, China etc. etc.

No country wants Free Trade unless it has a competitive advantage.
All countries want and need to protect their nascent economies and companies from foreign competition until they can compete globally.

These are the facts, not some West Wing fairy-tale about how great it is for people burning up in western-run clothing factories in Asia.
 
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Raising a foreign flag is treason and should result in immediate deportation
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
No it doesn't, unless you only count the 1% as people and everybody else as untermenschen.
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Sorry but it does in general. Some people benefit more than others and a few people do lose out, but saying it's only the 1% has no basis in fact. It's just lazy cynical thinking.

Gulliver Foyle said:
Free trade creates great riches for the top of society, but the age of greatest enrichment was one with significant restrictions on trade, the post second world war wonder years where social-democracy reigned.
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Gulliver Foyle said:
Edit: No the EU is not a free trade association, it is actually very protectionist, albeit using standards to protect it's internal trade rather than tariffs.
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The EU single market is absolutely core to the organisation. It allows unrestricted movement of EU citizens and goods between its member states. If that's not free trade between countries, what is?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
factually incorrect.
Free Trade makes the country with the more and bigger competitive advantages richer and the other country poorer.
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Factually incorrect.

The Great Zaganza said:
It is what has been happening in Developing Countries for the last half century+.
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Examples please.

The Great Zaganza said:
Because the IMF and World Bank demand that poorer countries put up no trade barriers, they cannot develop their own economy, as first-world countries can dump their products at lower cost into their markets.
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Like the rich USA?

whose manufacturing base has long been bleeding out to the poorer countries.

The Great Zaganza said:
Free Trade is what England had with India and the American Colonies, and it only made England richer.
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Factually incorrect.

The American colonies benefitted greatly from trade with the old world. The UK tried to tax the colonies because it needed money following the Seven Years War in which it defended the colonies from France.
The Great Zaganza said:
All currently rich countries have gotten their through trade restrictions, first and foremost the US, England, Japan, South Korea, China etc. etc.

No country wants Free Trade unless it has a competitive advantage.
All countries want and need to protect their nascent economies and companies from foreign competition until they can compete globally.

These are the facts, not some West Wing fairy-tale about how great it is for people burning up in western-run clothing factories in Asia.
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A free trade agreement is not a zero sum game. Removing tariffs benefits both sides. One side gets the goods cheaper and the other side sells more goods. Trade is good globally and anything that restricts it is bad, globally.
 
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