P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
Where's a barf reaction when you need one?
Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed
- Thread starter kookbreaker
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Where's a barf reaction when you need one?
plague311
Great minds think...
With .gifs, the sky is the limit!
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
And yet,
From 28:00
Ask yourself this question: - how did Charlie Kirk come to hold Christian Nationalist views?
Charlie Kirk
Charlie Kirk's concern about ethnic cleansing in Gaza shows that he wasn't a bad person at heart, and certainly not a Nazi. The truth is he was another victim of that religion of hate - Christianity.
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wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Now do his statements about how an airline pilot who is black is less qualified and/or capable than a white pilot.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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"concern about ethnic cleansing in Gaza" whilst fully supporting Israel's right to do so is the same are being concerned about segregation whilst attention a KKK lynching.
Kirk was trying to collect support for his eventually run for Office without fully antagonizing anyone, especially not the Israel Lobby.
Kirk was trying to collect support for his eventually run for Office without fully antagonizing anyone, especially not the Israel Lobby.
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plague311
Great minds think...
I'm confused, are we forgiving the hateful things he said and did because of Christianity? We do have some level of responsibility.
My grandmother was Catholic, my entire extended family is Catholic, I was raised going to church until I was confirmed and my parents were fairly religious until I was in my mid-20s, and I've spent thousands of hours in a church but have still managed to come out the other side not being a bigoted dick. People, especially right-wing people, talk about personal responsibility all of the time. Kirk had a ton of money, tons of influence, and tons of time on his hands, not having a full-time job and all. He had every opportunity, arguably more than I did, to change his viewpoints by doing simple research. He didn't. Being a bigot made him money. He wasn't going to give up the honeypot that the right-wing rageosphere brought him.
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I listened to five minutes (28 to 33:30), but I didn't hear the topic of race addressed at all. They were discussing the October 7th invasion of Israel by Hamas and Israel's response to it.
I don't know if he did, but I didn't listen to him very much.
The only people I've heard describe Christianity as a religion of hate are radical atheists.
What is your plan for bringing peace to the region?
What hateful things would that be?
In your opinion.
Well, here I am. Educate me. What do you believe Charlie Kirk said that was wrong?
plague311
Great minds think...
Look up the things he said about Biden.
Mine is the only one that matters. I don't give a ◊◊◊◊ what people think about me. Ask around here, everyone will tell you.
Educate you on what? You won't think the things Kirk said were bigoted because you agree with him. That's the stark difference between you and I.
Just like with the DEI comment. The fact is Kirk automatically assumed that the black pilot wouldn't be qualified, right? Or else why would he have to be concerned? He didn't make any comments about how white men tend to get jobs over people of color just because, right? We know that happens because of blind resume submissions, etc. It's been documented, but he immediately had to assume that a black pilot might not be qualified because DEI.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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you think Genocide is the only way?
Would that be worth it?
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I have split the DEI discussion to: This thread
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: jimbob
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Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
TPUSA DITCHES Charlie Kirk's OWN Positions And Gets CALLED OUT
Charlie Kirk was a complex individual whose ideology appears to have been evolving. On the one hand he said "Islam is the sword the left is using to slit the throat of America", but on the other "I’m told by some people that if I criticise AIPAC, I’m anti-Semitic”. Perhaps he was waking up to how the far-right crowd was using him. Perhaps in time he might have become more compassionate, a better Christian who actually followed Jesus's commandments. Unfortunately now we will never know - the hate he was indoctrinated with got him killed before he could atone for it.
"Impossible!", you say, "Once a selfish racist bigot, always a selfish racist bigot". Well at one time I was all of those things. I thought blacks were inferior, I hated gays, I decried 'socialism' and thought people on government assistance were 'welfare queens'. I believed that everybody was inherently selfish and that this was a good thing (I even gave a public speech on this subject at high school). I was a hard-line 'rationalist' who constantly asserted my intellectual superiority and lacked empathy. I could have been Charlie Kirk. But I changed.
A YouGov poll after the bombing in June found that 85% of Americans opposed war with Iran. Charlie Kirk was on our side! Now that he's 'out of the way' Turning Point USA, the organization that he founded, appears to be turning against his wishes.
Charlie Kirk was a complex individual whose ideology appears to have been evolving. On the one hand he said "Islam is the sword the left is using to slit the throat of America", but on the other "I’m told by some people that if I criticise AIPAC, I’m anti-Semitic”. Perhaps he was waking up to how the far-right crowd was using him. Perhaps in time he might have become more compassionate, a better Christian who actually followed Jesus's commandments. Unfortunately now we will never know - the hate he was indoctrinated with got him killed before he could atone for it.
"Impossible!", you say, "Once a selfish racist bigot, always a selfish racist bigot". Well at one time I was all of those things. I thought blacks were inferior, I hated gays, I decried 'socialism' and thought people on government assistance were 'welfare queens'. I believed that everybody was inherently selfish and that this was a good thing (I even gave a public speech on this subject at high school). I was a hard-line 'rationalist' who constantly asserted my intellectual superiority and lacked empathy. I could have been Charlie Kirk. But I changed.
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That is one way of saying it. Another is that Kirk was a racist who judged black airline pilots by the color of their skin.
The Great Zaganza
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Kirk was a sock puppet. His wealthy donors made sure he got completely undeserved media attention and connections to politicians.
His only skill was ambushing college students with weird questions and editing the answers.
His only skill was ambushing college students with weird questions and editing the answers.
I agree with Roger, he could have changed, that change could have been slow or he could have had a road to Damascus moment. Unless unwell change is something we are all capable of, but for Kirk his entire life, his income, his social circle, even his marriage it seems, was all tied into being a hateful person, he would have had to walk away from all that. And, sadly we know many hateful people and to be fair non-hateful people are quite capable of living a lie, of preaching against something that they themselves are doing away from the public spotlight.
Gulliver Foyle
Philosopher
I reckon the only change we'd ever have seen out of Kirk would have been the switch from pro-Israel anti-semitism to anti-Israel anti-semitism. The only reason far-right factions currently support Israel is that their theological underpinnings posit a strong Israel will bring about armageddon after which Jesus will give the go ahead to slaughter the jews.
Thank you for that. Do you know what helped you change? I do suspect that Kirk was too invested in bigotry - especially emotionally, where he was able to speak in front of large crowds because of it.
