Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

[LDE1976]

It is if you're a fascist. It all depends on where your personal Overton window is.

Some peoples' window appears to be 90% frame with a small pane at each end.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Some peoples' window appears to be 90% frame with a small pane at each end.

Wouldn't want any light to leak through.

 

[dirtywick]

They weren't even meaningfully relevant during the BLM summer, despite all the screaming and scapegoating. They were just a convenient thing to seize onto for those who, for example, opposed BLM's goal to reduce the disproportionate police brutality against black people.

i agree, but they were at least present. i haven’t seen anything even resembling what they were complaining about during blm during the ice raids. i have seen even more excessive police brutality from ice though.

 

[dirtywick]

As far as I know, other than you are posting on this thread instead of in a DM.

You may be correct about that. OTOH, the Trump Administration, et. al., says that, for example, the big ambush of an ICE facility in Texas by about a half-dozen people a few months ago was by some people with ties to Antifa. I haven't taken the time to look very deeply into that situation.

if the trump admin said it, looking more deeply into it would be wise.

 

[Nihilianth]

To be clear, nobody called themselves Antifa during WW2. It's a modern term.

It is literally short for anti-fascist. Just because a term was shortened, doesn't mean it doesn't mean the same thing. Language changes all the time, dude. Back in 1750 if you used the term "bread," as in "show me some of that bread" in a trade deal, they would think you were talking about wanting something to eat. In modern terms, "bread" can be used to mean "money." Just because modern hipsters are using the term "bread" instead of "money," that doesn't mean they aren't talking about "money" in the traditional sense of that term.

I have absolutely no idea how many times this needs to be said, so I will say it in all caps, bolded, underlines, and word-for-word:

THERE. IS. NO. ORGANIZED. GROUP. CALLED. ANTIFA!

Just like there is no organized group of baseball fans! You either like baseball, or you don't.
Antifa is just a default position of anyone who opposes fascism!
That can include the following:

1. Communists
2. Socialists
3. Libertarians
4. Capitalists.
5. Environmentalists
6. Baseball fans!

And etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum and so on. You can throw in dog trainers, restaurant workers, hockey fans, brain surgeons.....Basically anyone and everyone who aren't....well.... FASCISTS! Or at the very least, who oppose fascism in any way. Which is the DEFAULT POSITION OF TRUE AMERICANS! And Brits. And Canadians. And Australians. And French. And Japanese. And South Koreans. Ans South Africans. And Brazilians. And ARgentinians.... etc, etc, etc, and so on.

 

[Nihilianth]

This is one of the dumbest analogies, ever. If you think the guys who stormed Normandy Beach have anything in common with masked idiots causing trouble in Seattle and Portland, you're nuts.

Sure, these guys are Antifa.

If they oppose fascism, yes. They have that in common. Just like a capitalist may like baseball, and a communist may like baseball. They have that in common.

ANYONE can be antifa. Period. Just because some go out on the streets to exercise their first amendment rights to protest, and others storm beaches and violently kill a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of Nazi-protecting soldiers under a heavy barrage of bullets instead, that doesn't mean they don't both oppose fascism!

Just because someone may be the CEO of a large private American firm, and another is part of the Chinese Communist Party, that doesn't mean they don't both like baseball.

I mean. How is this even HARD? You people are jumping through all sorts of hoops because you are passive Germans in 1938 who aren't seeing the writing on the wall.

 

[Trausti]

If they oppose fascism, yes. They have that in common. Just like a capitalist may like baseball, and a communist may like baseball. They have that in common.

ANYONE can be antifa. Period. Just because some go out on the streets to exercise their first amendment rights to protest, and others storm beaches and violently kill a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of Nazi-protecting soldiers under a heavy barrage of bullets instead, that doesn't mean they don't both oppose fascism!

Just because someone may be the CEO of a large private American firm, and another is part of the Chinese Communist Party, that doesn't mean they don't both like baseball.

I mean. How is this even HARD? You people are jumping through all sorts of hoops because you are passive Germans in 1938 who aren't seeing the writing on the wall.

If you think ending slavery in East Africa was a good thing, you're a fascist. If that's how you wanna play it.

 

[Trausti]

The Italian Fascists abolished slavery in East Africa. That's just a fact. Apparently, some here didn't know that. Which makes the "anyone who was against fascists in WWII is Antifa" so stupid.

 

[arthwollipot]

The Italian Fascists abolished slavery in East Africa. That's just a fact. Apparently, some here didn't know that. Which makes the "anyone who was against fascists in WWII is Antifa" so stupid.

Oh my god, I never knew that. You've changed my mind completely. Fascism is great!

 

[Opcode]

You never answered...why do right-wingers love Nazis and sexual abusers so much?

I'm not aware that they do. Why do Leftists love bloodthirsty psychopaths?

 

[Nihilianth]

The Italian Fascists abolished slavery in East Africa. That's just a fact. Apparently, some here didn't know that. Which makes the "anyone who was against fascists in WWII is Antifa" so stupid.

I honestly have no idea what else to say to you. I know I wrote perfectly fine, understandably, and in clear English. I have no idea what point you are even trying to make in your last two posts.

Slavery or no slavery in East Africa; that has nothing whatsoever to do with the term "antifa,' which is just shortened from "anti-fascist." Those who are antifa, are opposed to fascism. Period. Whatever positive actions you think they may have made, doesn't change anything I've said to this point. This is, in essence, a red herring.

 

[Opcode]

Leftist is NOT an invective. I am a proud leftist.

That's morbidly fascinating.

 

[Opcode]

if the trump admin said it, looking more deeply into it would be wise.

I'd like to. This was an extraordinary event, especially in Texas. However, I have only so many hours in a day.

 

[Opcode]

It is literally short for anti-fascist. Just because a term was shortened, doesn't mean it doesn't mean the same thing.

Very few groups are purely anti- whatever it is. They have principles on which they base their opposition, reasons for their opposition. Not everybody who opposes fascism shares the same reasons or ideology. You shouldn't pretend that you can meaningfully lump them under the same banner.

I have absolutely no idea how many times this needs to be said, so I will say it in all caps, bolded, underlines, and word-for-word:

THERE. IS. NO. ORGANIZED. GROUP. CALLED. ANTIFA!

You are wrong. There are several organized groups called Antifa, generally sharing an anarchist, anti-government agenda.

Antifa is just a default position of anyone who opposes fascism!

No, you are grossly misinformed and gravely mistaken.

That can include the following:

1. Communists

The original Antifa were Communists. Literal, self-proclaimed, German-party Communists. The modern organizations tapped into that ideology.

Basically anyone and everyone who aren't....well.... FASCISTS! Or at the very least, who oppose fascism in any way.

I oppose fascism, Antifa, Communists, Socialists, Democratic Socialists and Leftists in general. All of these are flavors of Leftists. That's what you are missing. No, "Antifa" is not a generic term for opposition to fascism.

 

[steenkh]

The Italian Fascists abolished slavery in East Africa. That's just a fact. Apparently, some here didn't know that. Which makes the "anyone who was against fascists in WWII is Antifa" so stupid.

This piece of whataboutism has nothing to do with the arguments. You could also mention that Mussolini made the trains go on time (btw, that is a myth).

 

[Opcode]

If they oppose fascism, yes. They have that in common. Just like a capitalist may like baseball, and a communist may like baseball. They have that in common.

If that were true, Antifa wouldn't need to skulk around in masks and body armor. They would be posing like the men in the photo.

ANYONE can be antifa. Period. Just because some go out on the streets to exercise their first amendment rights to protest, and others storm beaches and violently kill a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of Nazi-protecting soldiers under a heavy barrage of bullets instead, that doesn't mean they don't both oppose fascism!

Allow me to point out to you that our military men did not kill Nazis or fascists just because those people were Nazis or fascists. In fact, many countries, including the US, were comfortable engaging in trade with Nazis and fascists for several years, and likely would have continued doing so if the Nazis and fascists hadn't engaged in hostilities, ultimately leading to Hitler preemptively declaring war on the US. The US was not at war with Nazis or fascists on ideological grounds, but on practical reality. Likewise, the US did not ally with the Soviet Union because of a shared ideology. Our alliances and opposition were made on pragmatic grounds.

I mean. How is this even HARD? You people are jumping through all sorts of hoops because you are passive Germans in 1938 who aren't seeing the writing on the wall.

The writing on the wall is Beware of Authoritarianism that would undermine your God-given freedoms. There are a lot of groups in this world that are trying to gain control over what you can do and what you are allowed to say, people who think they know better than you because of some profound, godless philosophy.

 

[AmyStrange]

If that were true, Antifa wouldn't need to skulk around in masks and body armor. They would be posing like the men in the photo.

Allow me to point out to you that our military men did not kill Nazis or fascists just because those people were Nazis or fascists. In fact, many countries, including the US, were comfortable engaging in trade with Nazis and fascists for several years, and likely would have continued doing so if the Nazis and fascists hadn't engaged in hostilities, ultimately leading to Hitler preemptively declaring war on the US. The US was not at war with Nazis or fascists on ideological grounds, but on practical reality. Likewise, the US did not ally with the Soviet Union because of a shared ideology. Our alliances and opposition were made on pragmatic grounds.

The writing on the wall is Beware of Authoritarianism that would undermine your God-given freedoms. There are a lot of groups in this world that are trying to gain control over what you can do and what you are allowed to say, people who think they know better than you because of some profound, godless philosophy.

Lots of words (opinions), but still no proof.

 

[steenkh]

I oppose fascism, Antifa, Communists, Socialists, Democratic Socialists and Leftists in general. All of these are flavors of Leftists. That's what you are missing. No, "Antifa" is not a generic term for opposition to fascism.

You have demonstrated clearly that the highlighted sentence is not exactly true. In fact, you have implied that as long as "leftists" are kept from power, you'll accept just about anything. This is much like how the conservatives in Germany enabled Hitler's Nazi party in the beginning of the 1930's. It had to take an imminent defeat in WWII before some conservatives tried (unsuccessfully) to stop the maniac who destroyed their country. I call your (and their) position support for fascism.

An yes, the first antifas, and the ones who coined the phrase, were communists, but that does not stop antifa from being short for anti-fascism.

 

[arthwollipot]

The original Antifa were Communists. Literal, self-proclaimed, German-party Communists.

They were not Antifa. They were Antifaschistische Aktion, established by the KPD to oppose the National Socialist German Workers' Party. And there is no unbroken line linking them to the modern anti-fascist movement. And yes, at the time, communism was the main opposing ideology in town.

 

[Opcode]

They were not Antifa. They were Antifaschistische Aktion, established by the KPD to oppose the National Socialist German Workers' Party. And there is no unbroken line linking them to the modern anti-fascist movement. And yes, at the time, communism was the main opposing ideology in town.

Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Socialism all were "new," modern philosophies at the time, a new way of thinking and looking at the world. They were not the main opposition, though. That would have been the monarchy or parliamentary systems, or even the few republics of the era.

I accept that the original group that inspired modern groups is not directly connected, but they are closely related. That's why the modern group adopted the same flag and iconography as the original. All of them are based on these modern, Leftist philosophies.