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Cont: Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed - part 3

theprestige said:
The difference is that none of us are claiming to have done great things for humanity, and none of us have a millions strong fan club of thinking believing people who insist that it's true.
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She claims to have done great things for humanity? When did she claim that? I know she is trying to, but I haven't seen her claim that she has succeeded. Quite the opposite, in fact - I've heard her speaking about her frustration about her lack of success when it comes to reversing/slowing down climate change.
 
Honestly I do suspect it's her fan club projecting deeds upon her greater than actual achievements.

But for me it's the sleep with dogs and get fleas situation. She has sided with terrorists and promoted anticapitalism since 2019.
The very system that has permitted her to travel about so freely. And given her a privileged life compared to many.
 
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8enotto said:
Honestly I do suspect it's her fan club projecting deeds upon her greater than actual achievements.
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Nope.

I'm pointing out that misogynistic and pathetic old white men hate her so much she's clearly doing it right. She has an enormous following among young people, and the allusions to Antichrist match perfectly with the beatification of Charlie Kirk.

How many other people under 30 can you name who are actively trying to do something positive about the future?

OMG, she's made mistakes! Have you seen the piece of snot sitting in the White House? Or, the even more vulgar fraud and criminal who allowed the genocide in Gaza to proceed to stave off a criminal trial? She puts her very life on the line - she's not some Greenpeace executive travelling first class.

It amuses me no end that even with someone like Greta - whose motivation at least seems undeniable - the Tall Poppy Syndrome raises its head. If sane people supported her and worked with her, instead of joining in the chorus of old white male haters, she might gain even more traction.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the left is in dire need of a sane voice, and if your best bet is Gavin Newsom, there are serious issues.

This girl is 22 ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ years old and has built a worldwide following, trying desperately to stop harm. If you know of someone closer to sainthood than her, let me know.
 
Helen said:
She claims to have done great things for humanity?
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Her fan club has. She certainly claims to be trying. In conclusion, the comparison between Greta and myself is irrelevant, because neither I nor anyone else is claiming that I do or try to do the kinds of things that Greta has become a celebrity for doing or trying to do.

Helen said:
When did she claim that? I know she is trying to, but I haven't seen her claim that she has succeeded. Quite the opposite, in fact - I've heard her speaking about her frustration about her lack of success when it comes to reversing/slowing down climate change.
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And yet she still has millions of fans around the world, celebrating her failures as if they were successes. I'd say Global Sumud Flotilla made a mistake in taking her on board as a figurehead, but they're in exactly the same cargo-cult, ineffectual gestures boat. So having G-Thunder out front is actually quite on brand for them.
 
theprestige said:
Her fan club has. She certainly claims to be trying. In conclusion, the comparison between Greta and myself is irrelevant, because neither I nor anyone else is claiming that I do or try to do the kinds of things that Greta has become a celebrity for doing or trying to do.


And yet she still has millions of fans around the world, celebrating her failures as if they were successes. I'd say Global Sumud Flotilla made a mistake in taking her on board as a figurehead, but they're in exactly the same cargo-cult, ineffectual gestures boat. So having G-Thunder out front is actually quite on brand for them.
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You could just have said no, she never claimed what i said she claimed. As for whether she is effective or not, I still don't agree with you; change has to start somewhere.
 
Helen said:
You could just have said no, she never claimed what i said she claimed. As for whether she is effective or not, I still don't agree with you; change has to start somewhere.
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The changes she's called for have never started, anywhere. She went to world leaders and demanded immediate, drastic reductions in global industrial activity, to significantly curb GHG emissions over a very short time period. That never happened. That was never going to happen. Nobody anywhere even tried to start making it happen. Israel's blockade of Gaza was never going to be lifted at her request. Nobody was ever even going to start trying to get it lifted at her request.

Yes, there's certainly been slow and steady work towards a better tomorrow, by many people, on many of the issues she's raised. But slow and steady work has never been her brand. Her brand has always been immediate and drastic changes that nobody besides her takes seriously. Even her fans know her demands are nonsensical in practice.
 
So stop requesting, is that your answer? I still don't agree. And I think it's the prerogative of the young to scream loudly for immediate change, and possibly even their duty, especially regarding climate change - they will suffer more from the consequences than we will. It seems clear to me that we are past the tippning point now, especially with the unending war in Ukraine, and with Trump in the White House.

But I suppose sneering at young people who take things seriously is a pleasant pastime, while we're waiting for the end. G-Thunder? Really?
 
Helen said:
So stop requesting, is that your answer?
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No.

My answer is to stop celebrating cargo-cult activism, and cargo-cult activists.

Helen said:
I still don't agree. And I think it's the prerogative of the young to scream loudly for immediate change,
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I'd put it somewhat differently: It's the prerogative of the young to act childishly.

Helen said:
and possibly even their duty, especially regarding climate change - they will suffer more from the consequences than we will.
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Cargo-cult activism is not the duty of anyone. Not even naive youths who don't know any better.

Helen said:
But I suppose sneering at young people who take things seriously is a pleasant pastime, while we're waiting for the end. G-Thunder? Really?
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Yes, really. And no, I don't sneer at young people because who take things seriously. I sneer at immature idiots of all ages who take cargo-cult activism seriously. The T-bomb comes in for a lot of sneering lately, because she's become a figurehead for that kind of nonsense, and she's been leaning into the role. I don't sneer at her for her childhood cargo-cultism, when she had to lean heavily on her parents' judgement. But she's an adult now, making adult choices to keep investing in cargo-cult activism.

And I sneeer at her fan club, which takes cargo-cult activism seriously, and seriously celebrates her as a figurehead for such nonsense.

Remember that woman who booked a transatlantic flight, for the "privilege" of going on a boat ride with Thunberg, to raise awareness about global climate change? I'm not sneering at Thunberg-mania because she's a woman, or a child, or I'm ideologically opposed to her causes. I'm sneering because it's ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hypocritical and retarded.
 
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The Atheist said:
This girl is 22 ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ years old and has built a worldwide following, trying desperately to stop harm. If you know of someone closer to sainthood than her, let me know.
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Sainthood usually requires two miracles. By my count, G-Thunder is oh for two. President Zelensky of Ukraine has done more to curb global emissions than she has.
 
You can call her what you like, I don't mind at all, it's just that G-Thunder and G-bomb are so incredibly juvenile, and somehow I expected you to come up with something a little better, or at least funnier

And of course other people, who are actually in power, have done more. Does that mean she shouldn't try?

Your distaste seems misplaced, and I find it hard to understand the vituperation. Personally, i'd reserve that level of (apparent) emotion for someone with real power, but that's me, so as the kids say, or at least said; you do you, boo.
 
Helen said:
You can call her what you like, I don't mind at all, it's just that G-Thunder and G-bomb are so incredibly juvenile, and somehow I expected you to come up with something a little better, or at least funnier
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How about Greta Tunaboat?
 
If it makes you feel better.
She is getting exactly what she wants by stealing so much of your attention and time
 
Helen said:
You can call her what you like, I don't mind at all, it's just that G-Thunder and G-bomb are so incredibly juvenile, and somehow I expected you to come up with something a little better, or at least funnier
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Those are just throwaway gibes, to relieve the monotony of repeating "Greta", "Thunberg", and "Greta Thunberg" over and over again. They're not meant to be particularly witty. Indeed, the lack of wit is in some ways the actual joke.

What you've overlooked, or ignored, is what I consider to be the really good wordsmithing that I put into the term "cargo-cult activism". I think it has a pleasing rhythm, and succinctly describes the phenomenon in question. I doubt there's a better term for it, coined or uncoined.

Helen said:
And of course other people, who are actually in power, have done more. Does that mean she shouldn't try?
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I'm in favor of sincere effort towards real progress and achievable goals. I'm not in favor of cargo-cult activism and the celebration of cargo-cult activists.
Helen said:
Your distaste seems misplaced, and I find it hard to understand the vituperation. Personally, i'd reserve that level of (apparent) emotion for someone with real power, but that's me, so as the kids say, or at least said; you do you, boo.
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It's simple: I dislike cargo-cult activism.

The Great Zaganza said:
If it makes you feel better.
She is getting exactly what she wants by stealing so much of your attention and time
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More cargo-cult thinking. And you also managed to make Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg sound like a cynical attention whore. Even I don't go that far.
 
theprestige said:
Those are just throwaway gibes, to relieve the monotony of repeating "Greta", "Thunberg", and "Greta Thunberg" over and over again. They're not meant to be particularly witty. Indeed, the lack of wit is in some ways the actual joke.

What you've overlooked, or ignored, is what I consider to be the really good wordsmithing that I put into the term "cargo-cult activism". I think it has a pleasing rhythm, and succinctly describes the phenomenon in question. I doubt there's a better term for it, coined or uncoined.


I'm in favor of sincere effort towards real progress and achievable goals. I'm not in favor of cargo-cult activism and the celebration of cargo-cult activists.

It's simple: I dislike cargo-cult activism.


More cargo-cult thinking. And you also managed to make Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg sound like a cynical attention whore. Even I don't go that far.
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If what you call cargo-cult aktivism is so ineffectual, why do you dislike it so intensely? Isn't it then just a part of modern culture that can be ignored?
 
Helen said:
If what you call cargo-cult aktivism is so ineffectual, why do you dislike it so intensely? Isn't it then just a part of modern culture that can be ignored?
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It's ineffectual at doing good. It's very effectual at manufacturing outrage, generating fear and hate, encouraging self-righteousness, and in the extreme vandalizing the commons - or worse. It also wastes resources and promotes ignorance. It's anti-social. It's not a part modern culture that should be ignored. It's a part of modern culture that should be denounced. I'm doing my part. Why aren't you?
 
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