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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

junkshop said:
We're talking about the sources of your claims, and your apparent reluctance to acknowledge them.
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You might just as well demand I provide a source for the quote, 'Peace in our time' completely ignoring that a fact is not copyrighted, so even if someone cites the SUN as a source it doesn't obviate the fact 'Peace in our time' was reliably said by Chamberlain. Does this make sense?
 
Vixen said:
Even if you shoot the messenger, the fact remains.
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It isn't a fact though. It's a claim from a noted liar and conspiracy theorist.

Where is the actual evidence he had a spacecraft business? Actual verifiable evidence?

Oh and once more with feeling, what is software?
 
Vixen said:
You might just as well demand I provide a source for the quote, 'Peace in our time' completely ignoring that a fact is not copyrighted, so even if someone cites the SUN as a source it doesn't obviate the fact 'Peace in our time' was reliably said by Chamberlain. Does this make sense?
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No, that makes no sense. It's gibberish.
 
Vixen said:
You might just as well demand I provide a source for the quote, 'Peace in our time' completely ignoring that a fact is not copyrighted, so even if someone cites the SUN as a source it doesn't obviate the fact 'Peace in our time' was reliably said by Chamberlain...
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Have you made dubious claims about Chamberlain based on an unreliable source's claims of what another unreliable source has claimed about Chamberlain, and then tried to deny/obfuscate the chain of unrelibility? No. You have made dubious claims about Voronin based on Bollyn's claims of what Rabe has claimed about Voronin, and then tried to deny/obfuscate that chain of unreliability.

That is why your sources are being queried.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
It isn't a fact though. It's a claim from a noted liar and conspiracy theorist.

Where is the actual evidence he had a spacecraft business? Actual verifiable evidence?

Oh and once more with feeling, what is software?
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The fact in question here is not the spacecraft business, it is the issue of which newspaper source reliably reported what Jutta Rabe said, and that newspaper, as requested by Junkshop, was Süddeutsche Zeitung, which his newspaper source the Postimees reliably reported what Voronin's relatives said in denial, the denial being that Voronin was some kind of operative smuggling stuff, as claimed by Rabe. Clear now?
 
Vixen said:
The fact in question here is not the spacecraft business, it is the issue of which newspaper source reliably reported what Jutta Rabe said, and that newspaper, as requested by Junkshop, was Süddeutsche Zeitung, which his newspaper source the Postimees reliably reported what Voronin's relatives said in denial, the denial being that Voronin was some kind of operative smuggling stuff, as claimed by Rabe. Clear now?
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No, the fact in question is the spacecraft business. You claimed he had one, we asked you for the source and that's what led to the conversation.

You claimed he had a spacecraft business. Provide evidence for that claim.

You claimed it was software. What is software?
 
Vixen said:
The fact in question here is not the spacecraft business, it is the issue of which newspaper source reliably report what Jutta Rabe said, and that newspaper, as requested by Junkshop, was Süddeutsche Zeitung, which his newspaper source the Postimees reliably reported what Voronin's relatives said in denial, the denial being that Voronin was some kind of operative smuggling stuff, as claimed by Rabe. Clear now?
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Süddeutsche Zeitung was not your source. You didn't quote Süddeutsche Zeitung.
You quoted Christopher Bollyn. Christopher Bollyn was your source.

Jutta Rabe was not your source. You didn't quote Jutta Rabe.
You quoted Christopher Bollyn. Christopher Bollyn was your source.
 
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Vixen said:
Perhaps if you stopped getting fixated on personalities and look at the issues instead, then maybe things will become clearer.
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Whose personality am I supposedly fixated on? Are you going to claim that my refusal to accept Bollyn as credible is because I dislike his personality like you tried to do with Bjorkman?

Just answer the questions and stop deflecting. It's genuinely pathetic.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
No, the fact in question is the spacecraft business. You claimed he had one, we asked you for the source and that's what led to the conversation.

You claimed he had a spacecraft business. Provide evidence for that claim.

You claimed it was software. What is software?
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The source is Jutta Rabe. Obvs if Voronin was an operative smuggling intelligence, that is ipso facto going to be secret. But the Rockwater company, owned by the Halliburton Group, itself owned by Dick Cheney at the time provides the USA link.
 
junkshop said:
Süddeutsche Zeitung was not your source. You didn't quote Süddeutsche Zeitung.
You quoted Christopher Bollyn. Christopher Bollyn was your source.

Jutta Rabe was not your source. You didn't quote Jutta Rabe.
You quoted Christopher Bollyn. Christopher Bollyn was your source.
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And this would be Big Crime because..?
 
Bollyn is a noted liar and conspiracy theorist and not a credible source. Neither is Rabe but she is at least better. Where is the original claim by Rabe you say you are using so we can check her source please?

Oh and yet again what is software?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Whose personality am I supposedly fixated on? Are you going to claim that my refusal to accept Bollyn as credible is because I dislike his personality like you tried to do with Bjorkman?

Just answer the questions and stop deflecting. It's genuinely pathetic.
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Let's face it, you were hoping Bollyn, a disinformation agent, was making things up, but he wasn't so you are disappointed it is a fact Rabe claimed Voronin was smuggling secret spacecraft stuff for the Pentagon.
 
Vixen said:
The source is Jutta Rabe. Obvs if Voronin was an operative smuggling intelligence, that is ipso facto going to be secret. But the Rockwater company, owned by the Halliburton Group, itself owned by Dick Cheney at the time provides the USA link.
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Cheney did not own Haliburton. He was chairman and CEO from October 1995 to July 2000.

The Estonia sank in September 1994. The Rockwater dive on the Estonia was in December 1994.

Cheney is irrelevant, and provides no 'USA link'.
 
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