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Terrain Theory vs Germ Theory

Chris_Halkides

Penultimate Amazing
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Very recently I was introduced to terrain theory, which seeks to explain disease differently from germ theory. I would like this thread to cover what this idea is. How it is sometimes related to HIV denialism or Covid denialism is on topic, but no one disease should take over this thread. My present but evolving position is that terrain theory becomes a conspiracy theory when, for example, a subject such as prescription drugs comes up. I am a firm proponent of germ theory. For example, I think that germ theory is flexible enough to account for the observation that not everyone who is exposed to a pathogen gets sick.

Here is one quote from someone with a nutritional perspective and who apparently believes a version of terrain theory, "“Germ theory” suggests that germs are what we need to worry about and we need to keep finding ways to kill them off. Whereas “terrain theory” argues that if the body is well and balanced, then germs that are a natural part of life and the environment will be dealt with by the body without causing sickness."

I found an essay at The Medium from Tudor Alexander, someone who seems to be expounding a nuanced version of terrain theory. He wrote, "Today, many years later, the conclusions of Terrain Theory have been avoided or outright suppressed in the education of both the people and doctors because, frankly, they aren’t highly profitable. If Terrain Theory has the priority in healthcare, then your focus is not the endless war against germs and outside forces but rather the strengthening of the body so that it can do what it was designed to do: keep you healthy...Chemicals do not strengthen anything and often lead to more problems..."

Mr. Alexander goes on to write, "By shunning, censoring and removing alternative viewpoints from education and healthcare we have completely ignored the Terrain. As a result, the average US citizen is sicker than their counterpart in any other major industrialized nation. In the 1960’s about 1–2% of children had chronic diseases and today, a few decades later, that number has risen to about 40–50%.(1)... Germ Theory has helped us create specific, targeted solutions to highly infectious pathogens or serious diseases. There are situations where supporting the Terrain alone will not solve the problem."

I found an essay at The Conversation and one at Popular Science. Modern terrain theory derives from Antoine Bechamp, but it is my understanding that the ideas have changed over time. From The Conversation, "Instead he [Bechamp] thought illness essentially depended on “tiny molecular granulations” called microzymas, which only become pathogenic when a change in environmental balance or function made them so. It was from this change in the bodily “terrain”, and not from germ invasion, that illness arose." From Popular Science, "In other words, he [Bechamp] believed that disease causes pathogens, and not the reverse."
 
One problem is that there were several diseases that were commonly caught by children. These kept them away from school and even killed off a few of them. Now vaccines have prevented most of these diseases.

The main problem is that the immune system has less to do and may cause trouble. So may we need to start giving it something to do.
 
False Dichotomy.

When the symbiosis we have with microorganisms in our guts and on our skin isn't enough to prevent the spreading to a pathogenic vector, only then will we try to kill the pathogen with therapies, or, more often, assist the body to do so itself.
Current Germ Theory already includes everything positive Terrain Theory might have to offer - if we had antibiotics that only target the pathogen, we would use those: we don't nuke our microbiome just for the fun of it.
 
One problem is that there were several diseases that were commonly caught by children. These kept them away from school and even killed off a few of them. Now vaccines have prevented most of these diseases.

The main problem is that the immune system has less to do and may cause trouble. So may we need to start giving it something to do.
That is precisely what vaccines do: give your immune system a workout but in a safe space.
 
That is precisely what vaccines do: give your immune system a workout but in a safe space.
That is one solution. Every so often give yourself a vaccine. It does not matter if you do not need the vaccine. I wonder what impact that will have on people who have auto immune disorders? Because those are the people who would need to do this. However my Googling does not reveal any research on this. There are even reports that vaccines could, in isolated cases, cause an auto immune disorder. Ref: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26728772/
 
That is one solution. Every so often give yourself a vaccine. It does not matter if you do not need the vaccine. I wonder what impact that will have on people who have auto immune disorders? Because those are the people who would need to do this. However my Googling does not reveal any research on this. There are even reports that vaccines could, in isolated cases, cause an auto immune disorder. Ref: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26728772/
That's not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth, please.
 
One problem is that there were several diseases that were commonly caught by children. These kept them away from school and even killed off a few of them. Now vaccines have prevented most of these diseases.
And this really pisses off those who practice medicine that is narrative-based rather than evidence-based.

The old 'childhood diseases' like measles were ideal for quacks. Being viral, there wasn't much actual medicine could do for them. In most cases the child would have got better anyway, and a quack could use the post hoc fallacy to take the credit.

The main problem is that the immune system has less to do and may cause trouble. So may we need to start giving it something to do.

the vaccines give the immune system the same things to do as the diseases they prevent. That's how they work.
 
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Tudor Alexander (The Medium) wrote, "If you believe in Germ Theory as the absolute truth, then that means all disease and dysfunction is caused by some sort of pathogen that you need to defend against." This sentence ignore genetic diseases. He wrote, "By creating pharmaceutical drugs and medicines, a whole new avenue of business was born — of which, Rockefeller stood to gain billions." Rockefeller made his money through oil, and the connection between that and pharmaceuticals dubious. "Chemicals do not strengthen anything and often lead to more problems. Supporting the immune system, supporting proper functioning of the various processes and systems with a complete nutrition program and creating a terrain that is as inhospitable for disease as possible are the goals of any discipline based in Terrain Theory." Mr. Alexander is enamored of vitamins, but vitamins are also chemicals.
 
This is just thinking out loud. If a person believes in terrain theory, what do they believe about animals who get sick? What do they believe about plants that are attacked by fungal diseases, for example? EDT: Or what about bacteria that get infected by viruses? Enquiring minds want to know.
 
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The other problem is that we know germ theory is correct, we know that treating germs treats disease, and we've literally seen and examined the germs and understand how they work.
 
That would be Tudor Alexander the god-botherer and ballroom dancer?
Personally prefer to get my medical information from people who studied, well, medical sciences.
 
At Ars Technica Beth Mole discussed RFK Jr. book on Dr. Fauci. She wrote, "In the chapter, Kennedy promotes the "miasma theory" but gets the definition completely wrong. Instead of actual miasma theory, he describes something more like terrain theory. He writes: "'Miasma theory' emphasizes preventing disease by fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses." She continued, "To this day, Kennedy writes, a '$1 trillion pharmaceutical industry pushing patented pills, powders, pricks, potions, and poisons...'" I have been pondering one way to rebut the vilification of the pharmaceutical industry that must be part of terrain theory. I find it convincing that we know how penicillin, for example, works in atomic detail. The same is true of Paxlovid.
 
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At Ars Technica Beth Mole discussed RFK Jr. book on Dr. Fauci. She wrote, "In the chapter, Kennedy promotes the "miasma theory" but gets the definition completely wrong. Instead of actual miasma theory, he describes something more like terrain theory. He writes: "'Miasma theory' emphasizes preventing disease by fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses." She continued, "To this day, Kennedy writes, a '$1 trillion pharmaceutical industry pushing patented pills, powders, pricks, potions, and poisons...'" I have been pondering one way to rebut the vilification of the pharmaceutical industry that must be part of terrain theory. I find it convincing that we know how penicillin, for example, works in atomic detail. The same is true of Paxlovid.

In my experience it's the 'alternative' medicine industry that pushes pricks.
 
Here's my problem with Big Snake-Oil; those who promote alternative meds are always 100% certain in the outcomes. Real medicine is rarely 100% certain. The alternative gang hasn't changed their tune in the 45 years with each sub-group pushing their miracle cures with the same lines of BS.

Meanwhile, medical science has evolved in those 45 years. In the 80s I had a rescue inhaler for my asthma attacks, and today I still have a rescue inhaler, but now I have another inhaler that prevents asthma attacks completely. Type-2 diabetics have a bunch of options for medications that aren't insulin. Last week I had chest x-rays and I didn't have to take my shirt off, and I was in and out in 4 minutes. And most of us old guys notice our younger doctors are all advising healthier diets, and exercise (which I guess they always did). Every aspect of medical science has evolved, and continues to evolve as new data emerges.
 

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