Ghosts and Haunted Houses

[Darat]

That a bit of an over-statement. No, we don't see with our brains. Yes, all of us perceive the world slightly different in some ways. Most of us can pick Brad Pitt out of a photo lineup, though. And while shadows in the night can hide all sorts of disasters, the fact is that oncoming freight train IS reality, and it's a bad idea to stand in the middle of the tracks. The fact is if you believe in ghosts you will think you've seen one, or had an experience with one. People who do not believe in ghosts never see or report them. It's that simple. It's funny until some kid is murdered during an exorcism because mom and dad are "believers".

I have always said that I have seen a ghost - can't find the actual thread but this is the one I was questioned on it: https://internationalskeptics.com/forums/index.php?threads/ghosts.91177/

What I haven't done is then jump to the conclusion that ghosts are remnants of people who have died, are an energy imprint and all the wonderful stuff believers in ghosts add on to the actual experience.

ETA: Found the post: https://internationalskeptics.com/forums/index.php?threads/anyone-seen-a-ghost.71595/post-2219466

 

[Darat]

From personal experience of my own brain I can tell you it is perfectly possible for it to create original images that I can actually "see". When I close my eyes and have essentially a blank dark canvas in front of me, on occasions I start seeing a jumble of random shapes and patterns forming. Suddenly a perfect monotone image of an animal or face appears that I can actually see for a few seconds and describe to myself. It sometimes morphs into something else, not recognisable, but nevertheless, it is an interesting experience. Does it have any value? Well perhaps only that if these self created images can be overlaid on to the reality of the outside world would it have any bearing on this thread. So far, this hasn't yet happened for me.

Some people do find their "mental" images and sounds interfere with their perception of the world - and not just talking about people who are clinically diagnosed as schizophrenic and similar diagnosis, these people see the "mind's eye images" you described as part of the world they inhabit. Often called hyperphantasia.

 

[Axxman300]

I have always said that I have seen a ghost - can't find the actual thread but this is the one I was questioned on it: https://internationalskeptics.com/forums/index.php?threads/ghosts.91177/

What I haven't done is then jump to the conclusion that ghosts are remnants of people who have died, are an energy imprint and all the wonderful stuff believers in ghosts add on to the actual experience.

ETA: Found the post: https://internationalskeptics.com/forums/index.php?threads/anyone-seen-a-ghost.71595/post-2219466

People see ghosts. This is why I continue to investigate the phenomenon. But now I don't try to prove ghosts are real, and investigate WHY people see them instead. Understanding why someone sees a ghost is an answerable question. Proving the existence of ghosts has been impossible since parapsychologists have thrown every electronic sensor at the problem only to come up empty handed. Skeptics and believers continue to talk past each other as on the one side, there is no evidence for ghosts, while on the other side there are plenty of credible witnesses. The truth lies somewhere in the middle where a witness sees something, but does not have all the facts depending on the circumstances. Someone who is frightened will not remember many side details of the event without a long probing conversation. Police deal with this every day. The garden variety ghost hunter rarely takes the time to ask all the questions. And this fuels the skeptics' side of things, and rightly so.

 

[JimOfAllTrades]

We have a "ghost" in our house right now. Occasionally you can hear what sounds like someone moaning. All three of us living here have heard it, bit individually and when together. It started a month or so ago and lasts for about 5 seconds at a time. We've heard it at different times of day, but usually in the evening or night. It's pretty quiet but clear when the house is quiet. It is not associated with the heating system or water heater, refrigerator, clothes washer or dryer, or any other appliances or electronics.

It took a while to track it down, but our son found the cause. He does most of the cooking, and he noticed that the sound came after running water in the kitchen sink for more than about 20 seconds. I've since noticed that it will also happen if you run water in one of the bathroom sinks for a little longer time. I'm fairly certain now that it's caused by faulty vent in the drain plumbing. I can actually feel the drain line under the sink vibrating when we hear the sound, but I tested the vent on that line and it's working. I'll test the other four vent lines over the next few days. If that doesn't find it I'll have to get under the house and check things out but I'm not doing that in this weather.

 

[8enotto]

My brother and I rented a house built in 1890 and later added onto four times plus some foundation repairs. Every spring and fall as the ground frozen or thawed that house was a symphony of groans and slow snap like noises, but only from the basement of the original construction or the first floor. Upstairs was quiet, the side add on was the same.

We detected it was settling when windows only opened in the summer on the living room. They jammed every winter.

 

[PookieBear]

There is only 1 thing that has ever challenged my skepticism about the paranormal, for lack of a better word.

I'm a big believer in rationalism but one thing flies in the face of that.

I used to live in a small town in Pennsylvania. One of the neighbors was an elderly guy. Went to work, never made trouble, was always polite to me.

My spouse got a really, really bad feeling about him. Then he heard a parole officer coming and going out of his home. Out of curiosity, he looked up the sex offender registry online.

Sure enough, there it was. He had raped an 8-year-old and burned her with cigarettes. He was dumb enough to tape himself, too.

I was stunned. I never would have thought that. If anything, I thought the neighbor was gay!

I swear, it is almost like my spouse has a 6th sense about people. And before anyone says "Nah, he's not psychic! He just saw a parole officer leaving!", I will repeat that he got the bad feeling long BEFORE the law arrived.

I asked "How did you KNOW!?" and, as absurd as this sounds, my spouse says it started when the neighbor started playing disco-techno pop music at night. He had a disco ball above his bed, too.

For some reason, that made my spouse think "There is something really wrong with the neighbor." And he was right!

 

[PookieBear]

Perhaps a 2nd thing has challenged my assertion that the supernatural is not real, if "supernatural" is even the right term to use here.

People have told me that their dogs can read their minds, for lack of a better word.

The family dog will trot over to a relative. They will think "Hey, that's not fair. How come the dog never pays attention to me!?" and the dog will somehow sense it and walk over to the person who feels neglected.

These aren't nuts who believe in MAGA or Christian fundamentalism or psychics, either.

These are liberal atheists, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[PookieBear]

Another thing. People say that dogs know they are going to die.

Before they are euthanized, they exhibit clear signs of fear. Not even at the pound or the vet's office.

While still at home, like they know what's coming.

People who work at slaughterhouses also say "The cows definitely know we are planning on killing them!"

On another note, they also seem to know when it is about to rain. They lay down when they sense it is coming.

I still don't believe in predicting the future, but....

 

[arthwollipot]

For some reason, that made my spouse think "There is something really wrong with the neighbor." And he was right!

It's entirely reasonable, and quite natural, to just get a bad feeling from some people.

Perhaps a 2nd thing has challenged my assertion that the supernatural is not real, if "supernatural" is even the right term to use here.

People have told me that their dogs can read their minds, for lack of a better word...

Another thing. People say that dogs know they are going to die.

Before they are euthanized, they exhibit clear signs of fear. Not even at the pound or the vet's office.

While still at home, like they know what's coming.

People who work at slaughterhouses also say "The cows definitely know we are planning on killing them!"

On another note, they also seem to know when it is about to rain. They lay down when they sense it is coming.

I still don't believe in predicting the future, but....

Dogs' sensory apparatus is quite different from our own. Their primary way of experiencing the world is through smell. Sight and hearing are secondary. So dogs react to very different sets of stimuli from us. That can make it seem like they're reacting to things that just aren't there because we can't sense them.

And cows are taken from their fields, loaded into trucks for a bumpy ride to a place they've never been before, and herded up chutes into a place that smells like blood. Of course they're going to be anxious.

 

[PookieBear]

So....a dog can smell your resentment and disappointment?

I used to know this dude who was a complete atheist (which makes me think he was a rationalist) and he would swear the dog was reading his mind!

If he thought to himself "How come the dog likes my sister but not me?", the dog would instantly leave his sister and come to him! Like the dog was trying to atone for a mistake.

I don't think that can be attributed to smelling!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Dogs are extremely good at picking up on human emotions and reading our body language, their entire evolution as a species distinctive from wolves has been as the lesser partner in an incredibly close relationship with another species that has literal power of life and death over them. We've shaped physically from chihuahuas to mastiffs, they've even evolved an additional muscle in their eyebrows because it makes an expression we find appealing. It's no surprise they can pick up on very subtle clues about our moods, their lives have depended on it.

Between that, the fact that most dogs will wander between friendly people in a group and good old fashioned confirmation bias I don't think (speaking as someone who's work involves constant close contact with dogs) we need to speculate about magic powers to explain their behaviour.

 

[PookieBear]

I don't want to use words like "magic powers", cause I obviously don't believe magic exists.

For lack of a better word, however, I think animals have some sort of telepathy, as crazy as that sounds.

I mean, I obviously don't believe in ESP or telepathy but I don't know how else to describe it.

People swear up and down that cows can sense when the rain is coming, for instance. When they know it is about to rain, they all lay down.

People speculate that they somehow feel changes in air pressure. Or they feel the moisture on their fur.

Fair enough. But that doesn't explain how animals KNOW they are about to die.

And again, it isn't cause they "smell the blood in the air."

My acquaintance was ordered to surrender a perfectly nice pit bull that had bitten a neighbor's dog cause that dog had trespassed into their property. What a shame. It was completely unfair. The other dog wasn't badly hurt, either! The pit bull was euthanized for no reason.

Setting that aside, the pit bull knew she was marked for death. She just knew it.

And it wasn't cause she "smelled death at the pound" cause she acted fearfully while still in the house.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yes, dogs can pick up on social cues in ways that humans can't, like P.J. said. It doesn't require any kind of "telepathy", just ordinary sensory apparatus that are quite different from ours.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

If you're suggesting a form of communication using no known transmitting organ, no known or detectable medium of transmission, no known receiving organ, and a common but unknown mode of communication between humans and another species then yes, you are talking about magic.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The unfortunate dog knew it was in big trouble because of course it knew what it had done and realised this had been a bad move because dogs are so sensitive to social cues in their 'pack'.

Worth noting the owner also sensed that the dog knew things were bad, because humans too are sensitive to behavioural cues and not because they had some kind of sixth sense either.

 

[Spektator]

Re: dogs. When I am home and my wife is out, I generally hang out in the living room with my laptop. Indy, our normally hyper dog, perches on the end of the sofa staring at the front door and stays there, even if I leave the room for a lunch break. Eventually and suddenly Indy will alert, run to the door, and whine. In three or four minutes my wife will drive into our driveway. She says if she's home, Indy does not hold still and anticipate my return, but will run to the door a few minutes before I return, but only if I drive her car, not my old van. My suspicions: 1-Indy hears the car long before we can and 2-Indy loves and misses my wife more.

 

[Pixel42]

Re: dogs. When I am home and my wife is out, I generally hang out in the living room with my laptop. Indy, our normally hyper dog, perches on the end of the sofa staring at the front door and stays there, even if I leave the room for a lunch break. Eventually and suddenly Indy will alert, run to the door, and whine. In three or four minutes my wife will drive into our driveway. She says if she's home, Indy does not hold still and anticipate my return, but will run to the door a few minutes before I return, but only if I drive her car, not my old van. My suspicions: 1-Indy hears the car long before we can and 2-Indy loves and misses my wife more.

There was a study a while back which indicated that dogs expect someone back when their smell has faded to the level it has usually reached when they return home.

 

[Thermal]

There was a study a while back which indicated that dogs expect someone back when their smell has faded to the level it has usually reached when they return home.

While that may or may not be, I'm with Spectator. I've had dogs and even one cat that could hear my particular vehicle from a couple miles out. I'm confident that it had nothing to do with timed smell levels in the house, simply because I was on no schedule of any kind and would head in and out at completely unpredictable times and intervals.

But if I go out on foot or bike for hours, I get the attack dog greeting tlil they see it's me. Because they didn't hear my truck.

 

[Pixel42]

I doubt it's just one thing, it's a combination of several.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

While that may or may not be, I'm with Spectator. I've had dogs and even one cat that could hear my particular vehicle from a couple miles out. I'm confident that it had nothing to do with timed smell levels in the house, simply because I was on no schedule of any kind and would head in and out at completely unpredictable times and intervals.

But if I go out on foot or bike for hours, I get the attack dog greeting tlil they see it's me. Because they didn't hear my truck.

This, my wife & I both keep irregular schedules, on the rare occasion I leave him at home or my wife takes my old noisy car he hears it from miles away, her new quiet one not so much & he can be surprised by her arrival home. For people with regular habits, don't forget dogs have a very good sense of time, when it interests them, Bert knows his 6:30pm dinner time to within a couple of minutes and makes us very aware if we're distracted and tardy.