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ISIS teenager wants to come home

In a report on secret evidence in the UK, Amnesty International wrote, "Lawyers who spoke with Amnesty International have made it clear that they face profound difficulties in representing their clients effectively where a closed material procedure applies; raising serious questions about how such procedures can achieve any meaningful equality of arms between the parties...The ability of the Special Advocate to effectively represent the interests of the individual where closed material procedures apply is also severely limited. In addition to the effective prohibition on contact with the affected individual once the evidence has been seen, as mentioned above, other reasons given by Special Advocates for this include: the lack of any practical ability to call their own independent witnesses to challenge the government’s case in the closed hearing; the inability to effectively challenge non-disclosure by the government; the admittance of second and third hand hearsay, or even more remote evidence where the primary source is unattributed and unidentifiable making it difficult for that evidence to be properly tested in the closed hearing. These factors have contributed to the overwhelming number of Special Advocates to publicly conclude that closed material procedures “are inherently unfair; they do not ‘work effectively’, nor do they deliver real procedural fairness”.4"

The report went on, "Special Advocates, who can see the secret evidence, have admitted that their ability to challenge the government’s case against an individual is often limited to identifying where allegations made by the Secretary of State might be unsupported by the evidence the government is relying on, or to checking that evidence for inconsistencies, rather than directly refuting or challenging the evidence as they would be able to in ordinary, open proceedings.23"

It appears that the Amnesty site is blocked here in Saudi Arabia, so I can't read the article.
Do Amnesty proffer any solution to this? It's very easy to complain from the sidelines, but trickier to actually suggest a practical solution.
I would hope that you agree that secret intelligence reports should remain secret, i.e. not available to the general public. Do you agree?
We need some way for this evidence to be properly assessed, without compromising national security. To my mind, appointing a go-between seems a workable compromise. If you have a better idea, I would like to hear it.
As I say, I think a discussion about how these laws are put into practice is worthwhile.
 
two of the reforms

Amnesty international offered several reforms, including:
“allowing Special Advocates in all cases to communicate in fulsome manner with the individuals whose interests they are appointed to represent, and those individuals' lawyer of choice, after the Special Advocate has seen the closed material;

“conceding in all cases before the courts that the government and the court must, whenever a closed material procedure operates, ensure the individual concerned is provided with at least such disclosure of the closed material as was held to be required in the case of AF(no3);”

Regarding AF(no3) this report stated in part, “On 10 June 2009, the Law Lords, citing jurisprudence from the European Court of Human Rights, held that: a person against whom a control order was sought “must be given sufficient information about the allegations against him to enable him to give effective instructions in relation to those allegations…”
 
Amnesty international offered several reforms, including:
“allowing Special Advocates in all cases to communicate in fulsome manner with the individuals whose interests they are appointed to represent, and those individuals' lawyer of choice, after the Special Advocate has seen the closed material;

“conceding in all cases before the courts that the government and the court must, whenever a closed material procedure operates, ensure the individual concerned is provided with at least such disclosure of the closed material as was held to be required in the case of AF(no3);”

Regarding AF(no3) this report stated in part, “On 10 June 2009, the Law Lords, citing jurisprudence from the European Court of Human Rights, held that: a person against whom a control order was sought “must be given sufficient information about the allegations against him to enable him to give effective instructions in relation to those allegations…”

Begum's case was in 2023. Unless the British courts are ignoring the ruling from the Law Lords, I would assume that this has already been incorporated into the Supreme Court and SAIC's procedures.
 
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/shamima-begum-supreme-court-refuses-120306084.html

"Shamima Begum’s legal fight to restore her UK citizenship has received a big blow after the supreme court refused to hear an appeal.

Three judges from the UK’s final court of appeal ruled “the grounds of appeal do not raise an arguable point of law”.

Speaking in February, Dame Sue Carr, who was one of the appeal judges ruling on the case, said they agreed with the commission’s decision on Begum’s citizenship. She said: “Ms Begum may well have been influenced and manipulated by others but still have made a calculated decision to travel to Syria and align with Isil [Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant].

“It could be argued the decision in Ms Begum’s case was harsh. It could also be argued that Ms Begum is the author of her own misfortune. But it is not for this court to agree or disagree with either point of view.

“The only task of the court was to assess whether the deprivation decision was unlawful. Since it was not, Ms Begum’s appeal is dismissed.”

Another nail in the coffin lid and one step closer to bringing this to an end.
 
That's unfortunate. In the US, the Supreme Court may also consider whether the law in question is itself lawful. Does the UK have no provision for assessing whether the law itself is unjust?
 
That's unfortunate. In the US, the Supreme Court may also consider whether the law in question is itself lawful. Does the UK have no provision for assessing whether the law itself is unjust?

The law doesn't allow judicial review of Acts of Parliament. I assume this means not, although my knowledge of this area is rather limited.
 
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how...inciple,that future Parliaments cannot change.

"Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution. It makes Parliament the supreme legal authority in the UK, which can create or end any law. Generally, the courts cannot overrule its legislation and no Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change. Parliamentary sovereignty is the most important part of the UK constitution."
 
Makes perfect sense that a body elected by all citizens should have the final word on creation or abolition of a law. This is the fundamental tenet of a democracy.

Allowing an unelected and politically appointed body to overrule the decisions of the people's elected representatives, as is the case in some countries, is the antithesis of a true democracy.
 
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/shamima-begum-supreme-court-refuses-120306084.html

"Shamima Begum’s legal fight to restore her UK citizenship has received a big blow after the supreme court refused to hear an appeal.

Three judges from the UK’s final court of appeal ruled “the grounds of appeal do not raise an arguable point of law”.

Speaking in February, Dame Sue Carr, who was one of the appeal judges ruling on the case, said they agreed with the commission’s decision on Begum’s citizenship. She said: “Ms Begum may well have been influenced and manipulated by others but still have made a calculated decision to travel to Syria and align with Isil [Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant].

“It could be argued the decision in Ms Begum’s case was harsh. It could also be argued that Ms Begum is the author of her own misfortune. But it is not for this court to agree or disagree with either point of view.

“The only task of the court was to assess whether the deprivation decision was unlawful. Since it was not, Ms Begum’s appeal is dismissed.”

Another nail in the coffin lid and one step closer to bringing this to an end.

That will be a big "yes!" from groomers of children all over the world.
 
Going by another report I saw this ends all the process in the UK, there is no other legal recourse beyond the ECHR.
 
That's a much wider topic but Parliament again decides a big chunk of that through acts and bills.
It's a strange one, our courts can decide a law is unconstitutional, but what that will usually mean is that there is conflicting/contradictory legislation in place. Parliament can then pass legislation that resolves that however they want. Which is what they did when their crackpot idea of sending a few hundred asylum seekers a year to Rwanda was declared unlawful because Rwanda wasn't according to other laws a safe country. The Tories then passed legislation that redefined what safe meant in regards to Rwanda to make it a safe country.
 
It's a strange one, our courts can decide a law is unconstitutional, but what that will usually mean is that there is conflicting/contradictory legislation in place. Parliament can then pass legislation that resolves that however they want. Which is what they did when their crackpot idea of sending a few hundred asylum seekers a year to Rwanda was declared unlawful because Rwanda wasn't according to other laws a safe country. The Tories then passed legislation that redefined what safe meant in regards to Rwanda to make it a safe country.

Yup and this is the problem when you get a rogue Government like the last bunch of Tories in.
 
Informed decision?

In 2022 The Guardian reported, "British sources, however, said they believed there was no suggestion that Begum travelled involuntarily to Syria, despite her young age. Officials believe she aligned herself with IS by remaining with the group in Syria and Iraq past the age of 18, and that she posed a security risk to the UK." Inasmuch as she was 15, I don't follow this logic. Governments restrict behavior of young people in many ways. They do so on the principle that one has to be mature enough to make an informed choice (or at least that is my understanding).
 
In 2022 The Guardian reported, "British sources, however, said they believed there was no suggestion that Begum travelled involuntarily to Syria, despite her young age. Officials believe she aligned herself with IS by remaining with the group in Syria and Iraq past the age of 18, and that she posed a security risk to the UK." Inasmuch as she was 15, I don't follow this logic. Governments restrict behavior of young people in many ways. They do so on the principle that one has to be mature enough to make an informed choice (or at least that is my understanding).

Translation: "Thank god 15 is just north of some really uncomfortable numbers, or we might actually have to do some work."

Legally, of course, they could have done the same to a former 10-year old, so I don't know why they bother. I mean, I know why they bother, but I don't care for the rationalisations.
 
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