Split Thread Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla

[plague311]

That's not really an explanation. Yes, this is a thread about Musk. But why does this thread exist? Why do multiple threads about Musk exist? Why aren't there threads about Sundar Pichai and others? The point remains: Musk is being singled out, this entire thread is part of that, and it's not because of his market behavior.

In fairness, you're allowed to single out a public figure you want to single out, for whatever reason you want to. But don't pretend that's not what's happening.

Feel free to start a thread about them too. You're a big boy, you can do it.

The reason those people probably aren't mentioned is because they aren't doing half-cocked interviews telling advertisers to **** off, they aren't making an ass out of themselves every single day on twitter, they aren't destroying a company they paid 40 ******* billion dollars for while his little cheerleaders *ahem* still talk about what a galaxy brain he has, and how he's a genius. The others aren't making antisemitic comments, reposting conspiracy theories, publicly doing drugs, producing 50 children out of wedlock, and saying stupid **** repeatedly.

On a business front, they probably aren't breaking labor laws in multiple countries, they probably aren't firing their employees on social media, they probably aren't being investigated by NASA (by ******* NASA for Christ's sake, has that even happened before?), and they probably don't have multiple investigations by various business law enforcement agencies looking into his practices.

If they do, feel completely free to correct them.

Already addressed by Ziggurat.

lol yeah, hell of a job too. Definitely the skeptical approach to this. Top notch.

ETA: More eloquently ninja'd by Aridas

 

[Ziggurat]

The reason those people probably aren't mentioned is because they aren't doing half-cocked interviews telling advertisers to **** off, they aren't making an ass out of themselves every single day on twitter, they aren't destroying a company they paid 40 ******* billion dollars for while his little cheerleaders *ahem* still talk about what a galaxy brain he has, and how he's a genius. The others aren't making antisemitic comments, reposting conspiracy theories, publicly doing drugs, producing 50 children out of wedlock, and saying stupid **** repeatedly.

What's it to you how many children he fathers? Is that somehow relevant to public policy? You aren't really being honest here about what it is you actually care about.

On a business front, they probably aren't breaking labor laws in multiple countries

Bwahahahaha!

Go on, pull the other one.

they probably aren't firing their employees on social media

Why does that even matter?

they probably aren't being investigated by NASA (by ******* NASA for Christ's sake, has that even happened before?)

Most companies don't work with NASA. But if you don't think Boeing hasn't been investigated by NASA, you haven't been paying attention. And outside of the Science and Technology forum, why would that even be noteworthy? This is just more special pleading.

and they probably don't have multiple investigations by various business law enforcement agencies looking into his practices.

Yeah, a lot of big companies do.

 

[dirtywick]

I'm not convinced it is hurting his bottom line. And I doubt he thinks it is. That's part of my point.

so how do you square that with his twitter losses?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

This can't be good.

Elon Musk Denies He Has a Drug Problem After Bombshell Report


But, if true, it may explain some of his actions.



Wall Street Journal article here:

Elon Musk Has Used Illegal Drugs, Worrying Leaders at Tesla and SpaceX

To be honest, I would say, given what we know of him, abusing drugs is probely the least bad of Musk's problems.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Musk denies he has a drug problem is probably better than Musk admits he has a drug problem.

Or is it?

That interview he had where he told advertisers to go **** themselves seems more explicable if we assume he was on drugs, I suppose. And maybe it would be more of a problem if was stone cold sober when he had that outburst.

The problem with that thinking is that it ignores the real reason for that rant, viz Musk is a whiny and spoilt man child who's encountered a serious No for the first time in his life. Twitter is basicly the first time he's suffered a significant setback (there's always been other people to pick up the pieces for him before) and he hasn't a clue how to deal with it.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

What's it to you how many children he fathers? Is that somehow relevant to public policy?

Because this is a pile-on and the more we can throw at the wall the better. Quality doesn't matter, only quantity.

But why is the pile-on necessary? What is it about Musk that we must go all out to discredit him to the point of absurdity?

his little cheerleaders *ahem* still talk about what a galaxy brain he has, and how he's a genius.

Ah, I see it now. Jealousy.

What makes people think Musk's a genius? I mean, he's not exactly a brain surgeon...

 

[angrysoba]

The problem with that thinking is that it ignores the real reason for that rant, viz Musk is a whiny and spoilt man child who's encountered a serious No for the first time in his life. Twitter is basicly the first time he's suffered a significant setback (there's always been other people to pick up the pieces for him before) and he hasn't a clue how to deal with it.

Whether he was on drugs or sober, it was a pretty crazy thing to do. That's why I am not sure which would be better for him.

 

[Ziggurat]

so how do you square that with his twitter losses?

What the hell do his twitter losses have to do with announcing electric trucks he can’t deliver?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

tyr has pointed out the anti-competitive practices that Musk/his companies have engaged in. To the extent that's accurate, I agree with that criticism.

Does he get any acclaim for the pro-competition activism that he and his companies have engaged in? For instance direct sales of Tesla fighting the guild-like practices of car dealerships? Or the way SpaceX fought for a more competitive contracting structure at NASA?

This isn't to say these things make him a good person or something like that. He was certainly incentivized to do these things in his own interests. My point is only that the balance of his actions is not clearly anti-competitive.

Give him credit where it's due: Musk is a very successful welfare queen.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Whether he was on drugs or sober, it was a pretty crazy thing to do. That's why I am not sure which would be better for him.

The best thing would have been for the law to have been applied in the Solar City trial and for Musk to have been found guilty for the fraud he committed on Tesla shareholders back then. By now it's too late for him to learn any lessons, even if a regulatory authority does what's needed and come down like a ton of bricks on him.

 

[plague311]

What's it to you how many children he fathers? Is that somehow relevant to public policy? You aren't really being honest here about what it is you actually care about.

I don't care at all, you asked why he was making press and the other named people aren't making press. I answered your ******* question. I don't care at all if you don't like the answers. The fact is he's got a million reasons why he sucks.

Bwahahahaha!

Go on, pull the other one.

Then do your part and report them so they get investigated too. Multiple of Musk's companies are being investigated. Why aren't you crying to the investigators about everyone else? You think they, too, have a Musk bias?

Why does that even matter?

It goes to show why he's a terrible owner, a terrible businessman, and a **** human being. If it doesn't matter to you then don't respond to it. I give no ***** if you do or don't.

Most companies don't work with NASA. But if you don't think Boeing hasn't been investigated by NASA, you haven't been paying attention. And outside of the Science and Technology forum, why would that even be noteworthy? This is just more special pleading.

For drug use? That's what you're claiming? Those other companies were also investigated by NASA for drug use? Cool, I'm sure you have evidence for that, right? Talk about special pleading. Also, I don't know how many God damn times this has to be explained to you, this thread is about Musk. It's not about his technology. I mean, for ***** sake do you even check in when you post stuff anymore? My statement is about him, him specifically. As another reminder, you asked why Musk is getting discussed and the others aren't. Jesus ******* Christ, it was your statement. Do you not remember? I quoted it.

Yeah, a lot of big companies do.

Again whataboutisms aren't really a thing I get into.

Because this is a pile-on and the more we can throw at the wall the better. Quality doesn't matter, only quantity.

But why is the pile-on necessary? What is it about Musk that we must go all out to discredit him to the point of absurdity?

I'm going to say this as honestly as I can. If Musk's dick was a ride you'd buy an all day pass that renews at midnight. There's nothing he does that you can't find an excuse for. I answered a question. I, myself, have a kid out of wedlock. The question was why Musk gets **** on all the time. That was one of many reasons, most of which you didn't address because, again, see the aforementioned cock roller coaster you enjoy.

Ah, I see it now. Jealousy.

Ah, I see, blind admiration and nut hugging.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't care at all, you asked why he was making press and the other named people aren't making press.

No I'm not. I'm talking about the attention he's getting here, in this forum.

Then do your part and report them so they get investigated too.

You seem to think other big companies aren't investigated. They are.

For drug use?

I'm not of the opinion that NASA should care if Musk uses drugs. He's not actually building SpaceX rockets. He's not actually operating them.

Also, I don't know how many God damn times this has to be explained to you, this thread is about Musk.

And I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you, this thread exists for reasons other than the issues being discussed.

I'm going to say this as honestly as I can. If Musk's dick was a ride you'd buy an all day pass that renews at midnight.

I'm going to say this as honestly as I can: I'm not interested in your sexual fetishes or fantasies.

And there's plenty of bad personal behavior that isn't an issue of public policy or even public concern. It's an issue for the people in his life, which doesn't anyone in this thread. I think Musk is probably an *******. Lots of highly driven, highly successful people are. Gates was, Jobs was, Iger is. But being an ******* isn't something you can regulate.

 

[dirtywick]

What the hell do his twitter losses have to do with announcing electric trucks he can’t deliver?

nothing. we were talking about how you didn't think criticism and disparagement could effect his bottom line as a way of holding him accountable so i brought up a situation in which i feel it did.

 

[angrysoba]

Ziggurat wants to know why Musk is singled out on this forum and not the CEOs of Boeing or other companies.

The implication is that there is something sinister or unhealthy or disreputable about this focus.

But it is perfectly explicable because he is a powerful person, the richest man in the world by some estimates, who has dedicated himself to being part of the discussion on just about every major issue. This is something other CEOs don’t do.

If someone declares themselves to be some world historical figure and wants everyone to know that they intend to mould the future of humanity then he doesn’t merely merit scrutiny, he requires it and it looks like an attempt to deflect by calling foul on this.

It comes with the territory.

 

[tyr_13]

Then you picked a bad example.

The dirt is piling on Bill Gates, America's loveable grandpa

Rookie numbers. A real successful billionaire would have certainly increased his personal credibility by sending her to massage school or at least offered a horse for a handjob.

It really is hilarious that there is no example where Musk hasn't just done worse, but done so in a publicly humiliating way.

 

[tyr_13]

My issue with the anti-competitive practices argument is so what? Every major corporation engages in anti-competitive practices. Sasan Goodzari oversees a corporate anti-competition policy that detracts from the quality of life of millions of Americans, year in and year out. His company's practices directly harm far more people than whatever Musk is up to at Tesla and SpaceX. But I bet you have to look him up, to understand what I'm talking about.

So no, "anti-competitive practices" isn't the reason you hate Elon Musk. If it were, you'd be silent, having already worn out your voice condemning Patrick Gelsinger and Satya Nadella. You'd be too busy condemning Dave Calhoun. You'd be all over Oliver Blume and Sundar Pichai.

You're singling Musk out for some other reason. "Anti-competitive plutocrat" isn't it.

The angry racist rocket clown who bought a social media company to pump his reach and whose businesses are currently vital to national security in ways that could risk a Russian war with NATO and inserts himself into every issue gets more attention than the current CEO of Microsoft? You don't say! This must be a conspiracy!

Apart from what everyone else said, Musk is a good stand in for all of them in regards to trust and fraud and business malpractice because he is so visible and such a clear illustration of them. More common people are aware of these things in relation to him. Further, criticisms of the others won't bring and many defenders either.

You want a thread on each of them? Here's how every one of them would go. Almost all the people defending Musk here would be against the anti-trust or fraud laws/regulations being applied fully to them either. Almost all the people critical of Musk would want those applied more fully and equally, not singling out Musk. The people who have some criticisms and some support...probably wouldn't say much at all.

I don't think anyone here wants these issues to only be addressed when it comes to Musk. I even said they should have more to Gates, my example of a better businessman.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

It really is hilarious that there is no example where Musk hasn't just done worse, but done so in a publicly humiliating way.

No, it's not hilarious at all. The planet is about to blow through 1.5 °C warming with no indication that it will stop. In December the temperature in the Arctic was 10 °C higher than average. Things were rough enough here last year, but that was nothing compared to what we face if we don't get a handle on it ASAP.

You may minimize, ignore, or joke about it all you want, but in a few years nobody is going to be laughing. Musk was one of very few rich people who not only understood the gravity of the situation, but was willing to pour his entire fortune into doing something worthwhile about it. For that he got brickbats. The naysayers and detractors were there right from the start, and only got more strident when Tesla managed to beat the odds and achieve what Musk was hoping for and more. Of course due to our capitalist economic system he also became filthy rich, which made the detractors go totally insane.

But it's not just Musk. The FUD about electric cars, renewables and anything else related to stopping global warming is now reaching fever pitch, as governments around the World finally agree that urgent action is needed. This is not a coincidence. People are scared - scared that their lifestyles will be impacted in some minor way for 'no good reason', while they stick their heads in sand over the real threat we face.

Well it's not just a threat anymore for many of us. In February last year it got real for people in New Zealand. My house insurance went up 40% last year and they say that's just the beginning. I've been doing what I can to cut emissions (and save money too!) but the few of us who are doing so are not enough. The new government is cutting clean car incentives and taxing EVs, scrapping other mitigation measures and drilling for oil. They are able to do that because the people of the country voted for it - the same people who think Musk is 'hilarious' and use that as an excuse to duck their responsibilities.

The detractors are definitely harming our efforts to mitigate global warming. They are public enemy No. 1. They are the ones we should be decrying. I don't care what Musk says on Twitter X or how much he gets 'progressive' backs up, so long as he keeps making the right stuff he is still on the right side.

If it wasn't so important I would think the hullabaloo was hilarious, especially considering the last US president's shenanigans and the insanity that permeates everything these days. But now is not a time for laughing. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their priorities all wrong. If it wasn't so serious I would enjoy having the last laugh when it becomes real for them too, but again this is not what we need.

History is full of unlikable people who got essential stuff done. If we focus on personality to the detriment of results then we are to blame. The truth is, leaders need to have a bit of narcissism in them to be effective, and scientists and inventors need to be a bit autistic (my boss, a scientist, says they all are). Musk says he has Asperger's (a type of autism) and I don't doubt it. We should sympathize with the debilitating symptoms as we celebrate the genius, just like we did with the others.

It's a pity people can't just laugh off Musk's eccentricities and concentrate on the good stuff, but then that wouldn't be human nature. Too many people reveling in the 'hilarity' while the world burns. Like Pogo said "We have met the enemy and he is us".

 

[tyr_13]

No, it's not hilarious at all. The planet is about to blow through 1.5 °C warming with no indication that it will stop.

You must be pissed as Musk for the way he's hindered public transportation projects and especially how he defended fossil fuels recently. And you must be willing to cut Gates a lot of slack for his massive investments in fighting damage from climate change.

No? You're not? What a shocker.

Tying all criticisms of Musk to criticisms of electric vehicles is in fact, hilarious. He's leveraged a real threat to get you into his personality cult. Giving him this much power and influence is obviously bad for advancing climate change mitigation and prevention polices.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

The implication is that there is something sinister or unhealthy or disreputable about this focus.

Ziggurat may have implied it, but I'll come right out and say it. Yes, it's unhealthy.

But it is perfectly explicable because he is a powerful person,

Powerful? How so?

the richest man in the world by some estimates,

This doesn't mean much. People with much less wealth on paper have far more actual power and influence.

who has dedicated himself to being part of the discussion on just about every major issue.

How so? You mean he posts about various topics on Twitter X, and occasionally does presentations and interviews? So do many people. The internet is full of it, and many of them are getting million of likes (and a ton of money) for spreading the most insane bollocks. All you need is a free YouTube account and the World's your oyster.

This is something other CEOs don’t do.

What do you have against free speech? Most of the stuff that gets you so upset would never be seen by the public if people weren't constantly trolling for it. Other CEOs might not be so active on twitter X, but I bet they have plenty of opinions on all sorts of topics. Most of them only share it with their peers though, since commoners are beneath them.

If someone declares themselves to be some world historical figure and wants everyone to know that they intend to mould the future of humanity then he doesn’t merely merit scrutiny, he requires it and it looks like an attempt to deflect by calling foul on this.

Right. So why are there no ongoing threads decrying how Larry Page or Jeff Bezos intend to 'mould the future of humanity'?

It comes with the territory.

Well you are publishing your views for the whole World to see too, so what you get back from that comes with the territory. Luckily you're an anonymous nobody, so the chances of receiving unhealthy attention from the MSM are very small (unless they mistake you for somebody of importance).

BTW nobody's deflecting. On the contrary, I welcome a rational discussion on how Musk intends to 'mould the future of humanity'. Just leave the unhinged rants, petty criticisms and 'hilarity' at the door.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

You must be pissed as Musk for the way he's hindered public transportation projects and especially how he defended fossil fuels recently.

Why?

And you must be willing to cut Gates a lot of slack for his massive investments in fighting damage from climate change.

Sure. When did I say otherwise?

No? You're not? What a shocker.

Right. You presume to know my mind and get it dead wrong. What a shocker.

Tying all criticisms of Musk to criticisms of electric vehicles is in fact, hilarious. He's leveraged a real threat to get you into his personality cult. Giving him this much power and influence is obviously bad for advancing climate change mitigation and prevention polices.

I'm just telling it like it is. But I've probably been following it for a lot longer than you have (the whole scene, not just Musk) so I have a better handle on it than you do.