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Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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Mojo said:
And Trump's narrative about the election being fixed or stolen is a conspiracy theory.
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That is correct and you seem unable to differentiate between, 'Current topic, Trump claims the Georgia election was fixed' versus, 'I am a proud boy and I am telling ya, the slimy democrats fixed that result'.
 
Are you denying that you pushed any of them? Are you denying that you stated you felt they were more likely than the "official story"?
 
Mojo said:
Nobody has claimed that "a wave ... caused the bow visor to fall off", although it's a strawman you have repeatedly raised.




Please can you show some evidence for that having been reported as the Estonian government's belief?
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In its report of 19 December 2006, the Estonian Parliamentary Commission recommended that the fate of the missing Estonians be investigated further. From their report, Chapter VII:

"3. Proceeding from the fact that several persons who allegedly survived the catastrophe of the ferry Estonia are still missing, and taking into account the fact that they might have important information concerning the ferry Estonia, propose to the Government of the Republic to continue the search for these persons. "


Or is the Estonian Parliamentary Commission also a bunch of conspiracy theorists by your reckoning? Have you considered that perhaps they might actually know better than you?

And the JAIC does indeed claim a strong wave caused the visor to drop off.
 
Vixen said:
Likewise the Estonian government did indeed believe that the MV Estonia crew were 'disappeared'. Again a factual reporting of the Estonian government's accusation of the day.
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Vixen said:
In its report of 19 December 2006, the Estonian Parliamentary Commission recommended that the fate of the missing Estonians be investigated further. From their report, Chapter VII:

"3. Proceeding from the fact that several persons who allegedly survived the catastrophe of the ferry Estonia are still missing, and taking into account the fact that they might have important information concerning the ferry Estonia, propose to the Government of the Republic to continue the search for these persons. "
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That quote does not support your statement that the Estonian government believed that crews had been "disappeared". The quote is about persons "missing".
 
Vixen said:
Being a true skeptic, I don't buy the obviously deliberately mundane 'wave caused the accident' as it clear the information is classified.
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This is good. Evaluating actual evidence is a small first step on the path to real skepticism. There is no evidence that a "wave caused the accident", and no evidence that anyone other than you, in earlier posts, suggested that it did that it did. Good to see you have changed your position on this one point.
 
Vixen said:
In its report of 19 December 2006, the Estonian Parliamentary Commission recommended that the fate of the missing Estonians be investigated further. From their report, Chapter VII:

"3. Proceeding from the fact that several persons who allegedly survived the catastrophe of the ferry Estonia are still missing, and taking into account the fact that they might have important information concerning the ferry Estonia, propose to the Government of the Republic to continue the search for these persons. "


Or is the Estonian Parliamentary Commission also a bunch of conspiracy theorists by your reckoning? Have you considered that perhaps they might actually know better than you?

And the JAIC does indeed claim a strong wave caused the visor to drop off.
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How does that support your claim that the government thinks people were 'disappeared'?

Are we back to CIA flights full of kidnapped people?
 
Here_to_learn said:
That quote does not support your statement that the Estonian government believed that crews had been "disappeared". The quote is about persons "missing".
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The word 'disappeared' is slang. The term is 'rendition' and of course, this has not been established because none of the missing Estonians have been accounted for. Think about t. The disaster happened in 1994 and the Estonia government bodies are still referring to them as 'missing' in 2006.
 
Vixen said:
Or is the Estonian Parliamentary Commission also a bunch of conspiracy theorists by your reckoning?
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Noting that people are believed to be missing and should therefore be looked for is common sense. Asserting without evidence that some government has "disappeared" them is a conspiracy theory.

You're just back on the same wagon as the previous 400 pages, so it looks like we're going through all your old conspiracy theories again with no indication that anything anyone has said to you has made the slightest dent in your delusions.

Have you considered that perhaps they might actually know better than you?
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Did you really just say that?

And the JAIC does indeed claim a strong wave caused the visor to drop off.
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Vixen said:
Being a true skeptic, I don't buy the obviously deliberately mundane 'wave caused the accident' as it clear the information is classified.
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The ignorant insinuation that JAIC believes this is all that cause the bow visor to detach is exactly why armchair detectives have no business trying to pass judgment on the professionals.
 
Andy_Ross said:
How does that support your claim that the government thinks people were 'disappeared'?

Are we back to CIA flights full of kidnapped people?
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That is what the CIA were doing. Of a human rights project, countries from all over the world provided information on disappeared persons (albeit many only disappeared temporarily). Only three countries globally refused transparency. One of them was Sweden. And Sweden was involved in a rendition exercise in the case of two Egyptians. Confirmed. You think this is science-fiction.

The Rendition Project is a collaborative research initiative run by Prof Ruth Blakeley at the University of Sheffield (and previously, the University of Kent) and Dr Sam Raphael at the University of Westminster. The Rendition Project is at the forefront of efforts to investigate and understand the use of rendition, secret detention and torture by the CIA and its allies in the "war on terror".
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Hardly the first time someone, government or private, under a wave of emotion, have promised to repatriate a body from an extreme environment, given it a go, realised how impractical or expensive it would be, and then abandoned the plan.

I mean, I've lost count of the number of mountaineering expeditions launched to get bodies off some 8000 meter peak, only to be abandoned the moment the recovery party members realised the physical effort required just to move themselves a few feet, let alone dragging a frozen corpse with them.
 
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