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Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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Disbelief said:
Fear when waking a man in the middle of the night, so one immediately opens fire.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-003757956.html
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The video is here: Columbus police release body camera footage of fatal police shooting in the Hilltop

The officer pushes open the door at 2:08, at 2:09 the light comes on in the room, and I estimate there's no more than 2-3 tenths of a second between the light coming on and the officer firing. It's almost instantaneous. Even if Lewis was holding a vape pen, I don't see that the officer took any time to determine whether or not Lewis was a threat before he shot him. I'm not even sure he had time to see if there was anything in Lewis' hand.

Bryant has not addressed whether police believed the device was a weapon, a determination that will come during the probe by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation.
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This is screaming for independent investigation. I don't trust any official bureau to properly investigate this any further than I can throw a 16-ton weight.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Also all the cops trying to overthrow the government on Jan 6.
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Yeah that ex-NYPD officer sentenced to what 10 years had me thinking... so "liberal" America has treated you so horribly what with your free healthcare for life and probably 70k+ pension that you needed to go EYE-GOUGE a Capital Police officer. These people with WEALTH who can find nothing better to do than listen to Alex Jones etc all day instead of enjoying their life. I don't get it.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Yeah that ex-NYPD officer sentenced to what 10 years had me thinking... so "liberal" America has treated you so horribly what with your free healthcare for life and probably 70k+ pension that you needed to go EYE-GOUGE a Capital Police officer. These people with WEALTH who can find nothing better to do than listen to Alex Jones etc all day instead of enjoying their life. I don't get it.
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For some, it's not about what they have. It's about what the wrong people have, whether it's the wrong race, wrong religion, wrong political views, wrong sexual orientation, etc.
Everything is a zero sum game. If someone benefits then someone else has to suffer. If the wrong people benefit, it increases the risk that the right people will suffer, including them.
 
Armitage72 said:
For some, it's not about what they have. It's about what the wrong people have, whether it's the wrong race, wrong religion, wrong political views, wrong sexual orientation, etc.
Everything is a zero sum game. If someone benefits then someone else has to suffer. If the wrong people benefit, it increases the risk that the right people will suffer, including them.
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Right, and don't forget the union issue here. After all, one of the big campaign issues of the right is usually the bane of labor unions, and the desire to eliminate them. But the unionized police don't have any problem with theirs.
 
Another one that seems maybe just a teeny weeny bit more aggressive than called for, West VA police shoot pallbearer at funeral.
He seems to have been a genuine bad guy, although the gun the police say he drew was not apparently visible to any but the police, who do not seem to have left much time for argument.

But hey, I'm sure the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" battalion will be coming up to the plate saying he asked for it, nothing to see, move on here, mop the blood off the shirts of the other pallbearers and stop whining.
 
Clear Creek County deputies shoot and kill man who asked for help after car crash

The man seemed to be having a bit of a mental health crisis - his car was stuck in a ditch or a bush or something and he was convinced that it was a trap. He would not get out of his car. He seemed to just want help with getting his car unstuck. He was an amateur geologist with the tools of the trade in the car with him - a little hammer, a rubber mallet and a pair of little knives.

“I have two knives and a hammer and a rubber mallet,” he said, in a slight accent, to the emergency dispatcher. “I’m not dangerous. I’ll keep my hands completely visible. I understand this is a dodgy situation.”

The dispatcher relayed that information to deputies.

“I’m not having any luck clearing this party and he’s not making much sense,” the dispatcher told the deputies.

When they arrived on the scene, Glass again offered to throw the tools and knives out the window.

Deputies said they didn’t want him to throw the weapons out of the car and instead demanded that he get out of the car.

Glass told officers with his hands up that he didn’t feel safe getting out of the car. He took the keys out of the ignition and put them on the dashboard and told them he was scared and wanted to stay in the car. He wasn’t suspected of any crime.
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A supervisor at the Colorado State Patrol, at one point, radioed in that Glass hadn’t committed any crimes.

“Can you ask Clear Creek what their plan is? If there is no crime and he’s not suicidal or homicidal or a great danger, then there’s no reason to contact him,” a CSP sergeant says over the radio. “Is there a medical issue we’re not aware of?”

“No,” a patrol trooper responded back.

But the increasing number of officers on the scene remained there, engaged for almost an hour and 20 minutes, attempting to get Glass to come out of the car. At one point, a deputy climbed on to the hood of the car and shined a flashlight into his eyes and remained there, eventually drawing his gun and pointing down into the car at Glass.
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It’s very possible that had Glass gotten his car stuck in another location, the entire incident would have ended differently.

In Denver and in Jefferson County, which borders Clear Creek County, law enforcement agencies have co-responder programs to help responding officers with people who could be suffering a mental health crisis.
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The entirety of his offense seemed to just be his refusal to get out of the car, along with actually following the order to not throw the knives and hammer out the window.

:(:(:(
 
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Sounds like this guy had some serious mental health issues, and/or drugs might have been an issue.

People shouldn't get shot and killed for that. But the unfortunate reality is that if you've got a weapon, even just a small knife, in your hands and you wave it around and don't comply, you're going to get shot. If he did indeed try to stab an officer, then it's a certainty. I would like to see the results of a full investigation before I pass judgment.
 
I've read the article again.

1. Not to blame the victim, but calling 911 when your car is in a ditch and you're unhurt is the LAST thing you should do. Call a tow service, or AAA or other organization if you're a member. Do NOT involve the police.

2. When you call, do NOT tell them that you have weapons! Your weapons are not pertinent to the situation. You are only asking for trouble. If he had just stashed the knife under the seat, the cops probably would never have noticed it.

3. On the other hand, the police did nothing to tone down the situation. Their actions pushed a mentally ill man even further over the edge. Mental health professionals might have been able to defuse the situation. It certainly was worth a try, and he wasn't yet a clear and present danger to anyone.

4. But if you're going to wave a knife and scream things like “You can save yourself! You can still save yourself! Lord hear me. Lord hear me.”, you're gonna get shot. I absolutely can understand that, from a cop's POV, this looks and sounds like a threat and the guy's about to attack.

The way I see it, the police didn't have to let things go so far wrong. But once he reached step 4, what happened may very well end up being seen as justified.

This screams for an independent investigation.
 
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shemp said:
I've read the article again.

1. Not to blame the victim, but calling 911 when your car is in a ditch and you're unhurt is the LAST thing you should do. Call a tow service, or AAA or other organization if you're a member. Do NOT involve the police.
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Calling 911 should not be a death sentence

2. When you call, do NOT tell them that you have weapons! Your weapons are not pertinent to the situation. You are only asking for trouble. If he had just stashed the knife under the seat, the cops probably would never have noticed it.
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Holding a small knife while locked in your car with officers safely out of range should not be a death sentence.

3. On the other hand, the police did nothing to tone down the situation. Their actions pushed a mentally ill man even further over the edge. Mental health professionals might have been able to defuse the situation. It certainly was worth a try, and he wasn't yet a clear and present danger to anyone.
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Yet they bombarded his car with bean bags, tazed him and ultimately executed him.

4. But if you're going to wave a knife and scream things like “You can save yourself! You can still save yourself! Lord hear me. Lord hear me.”, you're gonna get shot. I absolutely can understand that, from a cop's POV, this looks and sounds like a threat and the guy's about to attack.

The way I see it, the police didn't have to let things go so far wrong. But once he reached step 4, what happened may very well end up being seen as justified.
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Again, holding a small knife while locked in your car with officers safely out of range should not be a death sentence. What is he going to do? Magically teleport out of the vehicle? This is not a scenario where he can just run up and stab someone.

This screams for an independent investigation.
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Nothing will come of this. The thugs will all go free.
 
It does seem that the person in question was mentally unstable, but on the other hand, his statement that he was afraid would certainly seem to have been borne out.

What's the cops' excuse here? He was afraid we'd kill him if he came out, so we had to prove him wrong by killing him inside?
 
erlando said:
Calling 911 should not be a death sentence



Holding a small knife while locked in your car with officers safely out of range should not be a death sentence.



Yet they bombarded his car with bean bags, tazed him and ultimately executed him.



Again, holding a small knife while locked in your car with officers safely out of range should not be a death sentence. What is he going to do? Magically teleport out of the vehicle? This is not a scenario where he can just run up and stab someone.



Nothing will come of this. The thugs will all go free.
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If you think I'm defending the cops, you're wrong. There are things this guy did that are mistakes. I never said he deserved to die for them.

Then the cops turned it into a ******. But if you're holding a weapon and you make statements that can easily be construed to mean that you are threatening them, one or more of them, whether it's justified or not, probably will shoot you. This shouldn't have happened, and while I agree that it's likely that nobody will be brought to account for this, it still needs a full and independent investigation.
 
shemp said:
If you think I'm defending the cops, you're wrong. There are things this guy did that are mistakes. I never said he deserved to die for them.

Then the cops turned it into a ******. But if you're holding a weapon and you make statements that can easily be construed to mean that you are threatening them, one or more of them, whether it's justified or not, probably will shoot you. This shouldn't have happened, and while I agree that it's likely that nobody will be brought to account for this, it still needs a full and independent investigation.
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This seems to be the "cops are wild animals who will act on animal instinct" line of defense. I prefer human cops with rational thought.
 
The cops were the problem. Specifically, the entire “Comply or Die” mindset where the police demand compliance from people, and then reflexively become more hostile when compliance is not immediately given. This is troublesome in and of itself, but when combined with someone who cannot comply due to mental or physical impairment it becomes needlessly lethal.

If the police say “Get out of the car”, and the person in the car replies “Rutabaga bicycle sunbeam squirrel”, shouting “Get out of the car!” louder isn’t going to work.
 
Think back to that old episode of South Park where Cartman does his "respect my authoritah!" bit.

It's supposed to be funny because it's over the top and extreme, but it's like the police embraced that identity.
 
Random said:
The cops were the problem. Specifically, the entire “Comply or Die” mindset where the police demand compliance from people, and then reflexively become more hostile when compliance is not immediately given. This is troublesome in and of itself, but when combined with someone who cannot comply due to mental or physical impairment it becomes needlessly lethal.

If the police say “Get out of the car”, and the person in the car replies “Rutabaga bicycle sunbeam squirrel”, shouting “Get out of the car!” louder isn’t going to work.
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Which is when you bring in mental health professionals, which they didn't.
 
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