• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Race-Based Grading

SuburbanTurkey said:
Using grades to punish students for poor behavior strikes me as a strange way to deal with the problem. Grades should be a reflection on whether or not a student understands the material, not whether or not they showed up to class on time reliably. Especially in the context of children who are not the masters of their own affairs.
Click to expand...
One does not have to change grades based on attendance to be accused of discrimination.

For example, if a school practises continuous assessment then this would discriminate against students who were frequently absent - even if the student could ace the final exam.

No matter what assessment policy a school comes up with, there are bound to be some minority groups that do not fare as well under that policy and that is when you hear screams of "racism".
 
psionl0 said:
One does not have to change grades based on attendance to be accused of discrimination.

For example, if a school practises continuous assessment then this would discriminate against students who were frequently absent - even if the student could ace the final exam.

No matter what assessment policy a school comes up with, there are bound to be some minority groups that do not fare as well under that policy and that is when you hear screams of "racism".
Click to expand...

Evidence?
 
Darat said:
Evidence?
Click to expand...
Evidence of what?

Are you denying that anybody would claim "racism" if a particular race was disadvantaged under a grading policy or are you denying that continuous assessment would disadvantage students who were frequently absent?
 
Last edited:
One of the right wing blogs I monitor to see just what they are saying is having a field day with this story.


You should check out the comments in this posting. Normally I'd provide an incipit but the author could not be bothered to write any commentary, just provide an inflamatory title.


https://up-ship.com/blog/?p=49604
 
Darat said:
I've employed hundreds of people over my years, never once did I think an "A" grade or a "1" etc. in a subject told me anything about their attendance or their behaviour and so on as a kid at school or even college and university, it told me about a sliver of their academic capability. If the USA is using academic grades as a proxy for attendance and behaviour that seems very strange to me as I can't see any way a prospective employer can "decode" what that grade meant. Are they thick but turned up for every lesson, are they intelligent but only turned up for half the lessons, are they average but disruptive in class? How do you work it out?
Click to expand...

It's by no means a slam dunk indicator, but if you only showed up for half the classes, you couldn't graduate here (minimum attendance requirements). Same with disruptive behavior- it would be difficult to get the diploma if you couldn't function in a reasonably structured environment. Good grades and extracurricular activities (sports or clubs) also reinforce being able to succeed in a typical power/social structure. And no matter how thick they may be, basic academic skills that are valuable to an employer would have to be handled to walk at commencement.
 
Thermal said:
It's by no means a slam dunk indicator, but if you only showed up for half the classes, you couldn't graduate here (minimum attendance requirements). Same with disruptive behavior- it would be difficult to get the diploma if you couldn't function in a reasonably structured environment. Good grades and extracurricular activities (sports or clubs) also reinforce being able to succeed in a typical power/social structure. And no matter how thick they may be, basic academic skills that are valuable to an employer would have to be handled to walk at commencement.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm out of touch being a college educated effete "professional", but do employers who hire people with nothing more than a high school level education ask about grades? I worked my fair share of blue collar jobs through my college years and nobody asked about my high school GPA. Some wanted to know if I graduated or had a GED and that was it.

Even colleges and other higher ed programs understand that high school grades are a dubious metric, hence the heavy reliance on standardized testing.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Maybe I'm out of touch being a college educated effete "professional", but do employers who hire people with nothing more than a high school level education ask about grades? I worked my fair share of blue collar jobs through my college years and nobody asked about my high school GPA. Some wanted to know if I graduated or had a GED and that was it.

Even colleges and other higher ed programs understand that high school grades are a dubious metric, hence the heavy reliance on standardized testing.
Click to expand...

I doubt that a HS GPA would be really relevant, but the point was that a diploma indicates at least some degree of social conformity and performance.
 
Thermal said:
I doubt that a HS GPA would be really relevant, but the point was that a diploma indicates at least some degree of social conformity and performance.
Click to expand...

My point is still that penalizing grades for people for missing class or behavioral issues is essentially double punishment. Students who are regularly missing class or having other problems are very likely not going to be doing well on their academic work anyway, and if the problem is bad enough, they're going to fail. I don't see much added benefit in peppering them with 0s that can quickly make any prospect of a turnaround and improvement impossible.

It's pretty easy to imagine a situation where a student who was screwing up catastrophically for a relatively short period of time will rightly conclude that their situation is hopeless if such draconian policies are used, where a more lenient policy allowing for retakes and late work might actually give them a reason to apply themselves, should they have the will.
 
Last edited:
psionl0 said:
Evidence of what?

Are you denying that anybody would claim "racism" if a particular race was disadvantaged under a grading policy or are you denying that continuous assessment would disadvantage students who were frequently absent?
Click to expand...

Evidence that your fantasy is anything but fantasy?
 
Thermal said:
It's by no means a slam dunk indicator, but if you only showed up for half the classes, you couldn't graduate here (minimum attendance requirements). Same with disruptive behavior- it would be difficult to get the diploma if you couldn't function in a reasonably structured environment. Good grades and extracurricular activities (sports or clubs) also reinforce being able to succeed in a typical power/social structure. And no matter how thick they may be, basic academic skills that are valuable to an employer would have to be handled to walk at commencement.
Click to expand...

You are supporting what I thought might be the case i.e. there is no way to decode grades into information about attendance,disruptiveness, sociability and so on.
 
theprestige said:
You're missing my point. I'm not defending the legitimacy of the reporter. I'm dismissing the significance of the claim due to the low quality of the reporter.
Click to expand...
As if critical thinkers should assign legitimacy to putrid data sources. And as if everyone has infinite free time to deep dive into dumpsters. You're foisting drivel masked as critical thinking in search of internet debate points.



.
 
I thought ad hom, like appeal to authority, had a little chunk carved out for relevance?

Ad hom is ‘don’t listen to that guy about epidemiology, he cheats on his wife!’
Is it also ‘don’t listen to that guy about anything, he’s a habitual liar!’ ?

It just doesn’t feel like it should be a logical fallacy to discount demonstrably broadly unreliable sources. Like, I agree it would not belong in a formal argument against (point) but it’s not inappropriate in this more general context here.

Anyway, I’m gonna ad hom my cat and tell you not to believe him when he acts like he hasn’t been fed.
 
psionl0 said:
One does not have to change grades based on attendance to be accused of discrimination.

For example, if a school practises continuous assessment then this would discriminate against students who were frequently absent - even if the student could ace the final exam.

No matter what assessment policy a school comes up with, there are bound to be some minority groups that do not fare as well under that policy and that is when you hear screams of "racism".
Click to expand...

Lots of people scream about lots of things. To me, I like discussing those things they are screaming about in relation to news stories about events that actually happened. This is not such a story.


What I'm screaming about is fake news, such as the story cited in the OP. I think it's unfortunate that media outlets publish such stories, and even worse that they are repeated uncritically in various other media outlets. Before you know it, regular people end up repeating it, and believing it,as if it were true.

In another thread, I noted recently that unreality has a strong grip in the USA right now. This story is a fine example of that.
 
Shepherd said:
Here's the school's response to the article:

"Statement regarding grading practices | Oak Park and River Forest High School"

Posted May 31, 2022"

https://www.oprfhs.org/news/1742090/statement-regarding-grading-practices
Click to expand...

Apparently this nonsense has gained more traction by the usual suspects:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/e...l-a-federal-civil-rights-complaint/ar-AAY3ppL

A conservative think tank led by former Department of Education officials has filed a federal civil rights complaint against an Illinois high school that announced it was implementing a grading system meant to equalize student outcomes by race.
Click to expand...

Sheesh.
 
psionl0 said:
Without knowing anything about the grading system that the high school plans to implement it is difficult to comment.
Click to expand...

Not a lot of specific info but what I've seen so far doesn't match up with grading based on race.

Here's the equity board's slides:
https://go.boarddocs.com/il/oprfhs/Board.nsf/files/CELJGA4D1599/$file/Professional%20Development%20and%20Grading%20BOE%20Presentation_.pdf [ed- pdf file (jimbob)]

Here's the author of the first listed book in the slides, "Grading for Equity" in an interview at Harvard's dept. of Ed. He goes into some detail.

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/19/12/harvard-edcast-grading-equity

I found the interview rather interesting. And some of what he discussed applied to me.

On a personal note, I got a B in high school chemistry because I often didn't turn in homework and didn't pay much attention in class. However, I also really liked chemistry (but not the chemistry class) and would get library books to read in areas I was curious about at any given time. I would toggle between books on chem. physics, and math because each made the others clearer. When I took SATs/aptitude tests I got a perfect score on the chemistry one. Unknown to me or my parents, the school changed my chemistry grades to A.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom