• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

psionl0 said:
"This guy has outed me, better call him a Fanboy".


Bitcoin has made a monkey out of everybody who ever said that there will never be a bigger bubble fool than the last one. You might as well start swinging from the trees now.
Click to expand...

FTFY

There's nothing supporting the value of Bitcoin except the fact that people who buy it think they'll be able to find somebody to pay them more money for the coin than they paid. Eventually you will run out of bigger fools because the population of the Earth is finite and the ones with real money to spend on Bitcoin are in even shorter supply.
 
jeremyp said:
FTFY

There's nothing supporting the value of Bitcoin except the fact that people who buy it think they'll be able to find somebody to pay them more money for the coin than they paid. Eventually you will run out of bigger fools because the population of the Earth is finite and the ones with real money to spend on Bitcoin are in even shorter supply.
Click to expand...

AKA "A Ponzi scheme" :thumbsup:
 
psionl0 said:
"This guy has outed me, better call him a Fanboy".


Bitcoin has made a monkey out of everybody who ever said that there will never be a bigger bubble than the last one. You might as well start swinging from the trees now.
Click to expand...
There have been just 3 bull runs. To 1k to 20k and to 70k.
You are in danger of generalizing from the particular.
 
There's certainly a whiff of "boy who cried wolf" about this thread, but of course the boy was actually right - eventually. Whether that will be true in this case I am not remotely qualified to guess.
 
Pixel42 said:
There's certainly a whiff of "boy who cried wolf" about this thread, but of course the boy was actually right - eventually. Whether that will be true in this case I am not remotely qualified to guess.
Click to expand...

I doubt if we've seen the last Bitcoin bubble (nice to see psionl0 acknowledging that this alleged currency has bubbles) but the upcoming recession could put an enormous strain on it. People are going to want to liquidate their positions so they can pay for things like rent and food. If there's any trouble with that i.e. people having trouble turning their Bitcoins into dollars, confidence in Bitcoin could collapse.
 
Pixel42 said:
There's certainly a whiff of "boy who cried wolf" about this thread, but of course the boy was actually right - eventually. Whether that will be true in this case I am not remotely qualified to guess.
Click to expand...

I am not about "Tee hee, lookit me, I was right about Bitcoin." I won't have an existential crisis when Bitcoin goes back up to 100k, there are certainly many rich fanboys who could make this happen within the next five minutes.

I am about the fanboys who conveniently ignore the fact that Bitcoin is what it is through a not-so-well hidden Ponzi Scheme. The people who are the most angry about criticism are the ones who have a big chunk of money "invested" and are now "patiently" waiting to become millionaires. :D ETA: While repeatedly and most dishonestly telling us how "useful" Bitcoin is for X,Y and Z while it's ALL about "I want to become rich fast and then I will ignore Bitcoin completely"
 
Last edited:
EaglePuncher said:
I am about the fanboys who conveniently ignore the fact that Bitcoin is what it is through a not-so-well hidden Ponzi Scheme.
Click to expand...
ftfy.

A Ponzi/Pyramid/etc scheme is run by somebody who profits from all those he recruits to "invest" in his scheme. A few early entrants may also profit before the scam falls apart.

Until you can identify who is running bitcoin and how much they have made from it and how they are recruiting investors, you are just posting random words.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Iss that a good thing?
Click to expand...
It is not so much about whether the price cycles are good or bad as it is about whether the current crop of doomsday prophets are any better than the idiots that preceded them (and made the exact same posts).

The main negative is that the more expensive bitcoin becomes, the more energy will be wasted mining it.
 
Last edited:
jeremyp said:
Eventually you will run out of bigger fools because the population of the Earth is finite and the ones with real money to spend on Bitcoin are in even shorter supply.
Click to expand...
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.

Even assuming that the global population is a limiting factor on demand, at 7 billion+ it could be centuries before any sort of limit is reached. But in reality, it is the amount of fiat currency that is available that would impose a "limit" on how much is used for speculation and as long as currency continues to be printed, there will never be any limit.
 
psionl0 said:
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.
Click to expand...

But there is a real underpinning of the value of other commodities. Speculate on aluminum futures and the aluminum is unlikely to be worth remarkably less that what you paid for it.

Bitcoin is much more a collectable than a commodity, and collectables come in and out of fashion and can easily crash in value and stay worth very little(few physical objects are worth nothing). What is MMO gold worth after they close down the last server? It was a commodity that was worth real money at one point, but now is worth nothing.

Which is the point, bitcoin is only a speculative value, it has no hard and fast thing underpinning its value.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
You do realize that exactly 2 years ago Bitcoin was selling for under $10K?
Click to expand...

And $3k few months before that (namely March 2020).

But Luna certainly got blasted. Would be interesting to know how exactly that happened. Btw. AFAIK this whole current 'collapse' is caused by just that.

But Bitcoin itself is just fine. If there is something looming over its existence, it's the environmental impact, which may lead to regulation. Lower price will postpone that. First media will stop caring, second the impact will actually lower, as it will be less profitable to mine.
If we reach new ATH, it will become hot topic again though.
 
psionl0 said:
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.
Click to expand...
Most commodities have some core of people that want to buy them to consume them. But you are right. Theoretically, the same thing could happen with any commodity. Explain how that makes it good?

Even assuming that the global population is a limiting factor on demand
Click to expand...
What do you mean "assuming"?

at 7 billion+ it could be centuries before any sort of limit is reached. But in reality, it is the amount of fiat currency that is available that would impose a "limit" on how much is used for speculation and as long as currency continues to be printed, there will never be any limit.
Click to expand...

Well, seven billion is an over estimate. From that number, you have got to remove anybody who doesn't have access to the Internet, anybody who is sceptical of Bitcoin or has no interest in it, anybody who lives in a jurisdiction where it is illegal to trade in cryptocurrencies, and anybody who doesn't have the money to spend. I suspect once you do that we are not so far from the limit, especially when more disasters like Terra luna get into the mainstream news.

And even if all seven billion people are gagging to speculate on Bitcoin, the spurts of exponential growth it puts on will mean it will hit its limit sooner than you think. This is why pyramid and ponzi schemes always break down in the end - the requirement for exponential growth soon outstrips the number of available suckers.
 
psionl0 said:
ftfy.

A Ponzi/Pyramid/etc scheme is run by somebody who profits from all those he recruits to "invest" in his scheme. A few early entrants may also profit before the scam falls apart.

Until you can identify who is running bitcoin and how much they have made from it and how they are recruiting investors, you are just posting random words.
Click to expand...

"I don't allow criticism of my prreeeecioussss!!"

How much do you have locked upinvested in Bitcoin? How good is your sleep? :D
 
EaglePuncher said:
"I don't allow criticism of my prreeeecioussss!!"

How much do you have locked upinvested in Bitcoin? How good is your sleep? :D
Click to expand...

It's interesting, because your characterisation of Bitcoin doesn't meet the exact definition of a ponzi scheme, your words are completely meaningless. Can you say "false dichotomy"?
 
ponderingturtle said:
But there is a real underpinning of the value of other commodities. Speculate on aluminum futures and the aluminum is unlikely to be worth remarkably less that what you paid for it.

Bitcoin is much more a collectable than a commodity, and collectables come in and out of fashion and can easily crash in value and stay worth very little(few physical objects are worth nothing). What is MMO gold worth after they close down the last server? It was a commodity that was worth real money at one point, but now is worth nothing.

Which is the point, bitcoin is only a speculative value, it has no hard and fast thing underpinning its value.
Click to expand...

That's what makes the essence of bitcoin hard to pin down. It isn't inherently suspect or really even novel as much as the execution of the concept is unworkable and largely stupid.

All of the above can be said about the dollar just that we trust the US government to keep their currency way way more than people running an MMO and also way more than some algorithm drawn up by someone years ago who hated the idea of the Fed. It all goes back to fiat currency being arguably the greatest human advancement in history and how much that pisses some people off who hate the idea of collective trust in economic experts guided by a government.

Even as to the hybrid financial instrument / collectables it isn't novel. Somewhere I have a certificate for 100 shares of Worlds of Wonder I was given as a gift the 80s. Totally worthless in the conventional sense, but I imagine somewhere someone would pay for it because they have fond memories of the original Teddy Ruxpin. Or just like to collect stock certificates from notorious bankrupted corporations.

Bitcoin even after collapse would have value with some people. It's just too famous and notorious that absent some structural collapse of the ledger some people are going to want to have it as a sort of keepsake. People are weird.
 
Last edited:
jeremyp said:
It's interesting, because your characterisation of Bitcoin doesn't meet the exact definition of a ponzi scheme, your words are completely meaningless. Can you say "false dichotomy"?
Click to expand...
Bitcoin doesn't even remotely resemble a Ponzi scheme. You are just using faulty logic:

"Ponzi schemes are bad. Bitcoin is bad. Therefore bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme". (ie "All cats have 4 legs .....")
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom